Unruly 3-year-old child kicked off Alaska Airlines flight
Courtesy Mark Yanchuk
Mark Yanchuk holds his son in this undated family photo.
Alaska Airlines ordered a screaming, squirming toddler off a plane over Memorial Day weekend when he would not stay buckled in his seat.
The incident happened Saturday night on a flight from Seattle to Miami -- the first leg of a long journey to the Virgin Islands for Mark Yanchuk, a computer salesman from Everett, Wash., his wife, mother-in-law and two small children.
The family was allowed to board early and they split up once on the plane. Yanchuk and his 3-year-old son, Daniel, sat in the main cabin, while his wife, mother-in-law and one-year-old child took their seats in first class.
Daniel played with an iPad until passengers were asked to turn off their electronic devices and Yanchuk took the gadget away.
“He got a little bit cranky, started screaming, maybe yelling a little bit, crying,” Yanchuk told msnbc.com.
“During this whole time I’m trying to put him in his seat and his seat belt. I put the seat belt on him but not all the way, so I’m struggling to put in on and he’s still yelling.”
Alaska Airlines spokesman Paul McElroy said flight attendants came to check on the father and the boy several times before departure to try to help calm the child down, but Daniel was restless and wouldn’t get buckled in.
“Everybody wanted to make this work, just trying to work with the child and get him to sit upright,” McElroy said.
“He kept lying down in his seat, his legs were dangling over the arm rest. At one point, we did have the seat belt fastened but because the child was lying down, now the belt was across his neck and the flight attendants were worried that he would begin to choke himself.”
Yanchuk disputes that account, saying he would never allow his son to get into such a precarious position. He said he tried to calm Daniel down, but couldn’t do it as well as his wife, who was far away.
When the boy finally sat up, the plane pushed back from the gate. But then a flight attendant noticed that the child was lying down in his seat again, so the captain was notified and decided to return to the gate, McElroy said.
“We certainly regret the inconvenience to this family, but the flight crew in their best judgment did make the necessary decision to direct the family to take another flight,” McElroy said, adding it was a safety issue.
Yanchuk and his son were asked to leave. His wife, mother-in-law and one-year-old child were told they could continue the trip, but the family didn’t want to split up, so all five disembarked.
Alaska Airlines offered to rebook them on the same flight the next day, but Yanchuk declined, saying he would be uncomfortable flying the airline again. The family will receive a refund for the flight, McElroy said. Their baggage, which continued on to the Virgin Islands, will be returned soon. The vacation is canceled for now and Yanchuk is still trying to figure out what went wrong.
“I think they overreacted. I know you get kicked off planes for dangerous situations like not wearing a seat belt or running around or something dangerous. But I didn’t see the situation as being dangerous at all,” Yanchuk said.
The next time he flies with Daniel, Yanchuk plans to keep the family seated more closely together and try to distract the toddler more, he added.
I am amazed at the comments, I did not want to believe that people would be so cruel, rude, and obnoxious. The child is three, and his father tried very hard to get him quieted, and settled. I dare any person who put a negative comment, and those who have children, tell me their children at three were perfect. Because I would not believe you. There are no perfect three year old's. No matter what any of you think. And I am a parent, I had two three year old and they were differently not perfect. At least not until about four or four and a half. You guys are hysterically funny.
Why not just switch seats with the mom?
#1 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:17 AM EDT
While
I am not unsympathetic to the parents, having a 2 year old, yeah, if
its an extreme meltdown, you don't even WANT your kid on a plane. Given
the approach of the airline (offer to rebook, full refund since they
refused), I think it is all good.
You don't HAVE to pick sides. It seems it could be true the flight crew also overreacted. But again, think about it. The parents don't want to fly the airline now. The airline didn't want them on board. Full refund.
DONE.
#1.1 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:27 AM EDTYou don't HAVE to pick sides. It seems it could be true the flight crew also overreacted. But again, think about it. The parents don't want to fly the airline now. The airline didn't want them on board. Full refund.
DONE.
Doesn't help that kids over 2 yrs have to buy a seat, but the restraints for kids between 2 and 6 are not appropriate.
#1.2 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:32 AM EDT
Couldn't
the father have held the boy in his lap during take off, or is that no
longer allowed? In any event, I think the airline did the right thing,
all I'll bet all of the other passengers on that plane also thought they
did the right thing!
#1.3 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:48 AM EDT
Comment collapsed by the community
This
guy and his 3 year old need to think about all the other passengers
that paid for their seats too, and dont want to take a long flight with a
3 year old that has a meltdown over an ipad shutting off...and a dad
who is incompetent and cant control the child.
I dont have kids, but if I did...and I knew my kids were prone to meltdowns I cant stop or control, I would NEVER take them on a plane.
I remember my mom picking me up out of the grocery cart and hauling us out of the store because I threw a fit over something. She didnt force the whole store to endure my meltdown, that was her job...
some parents just dont have much common courtesy these days...
#1.4 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:48 AM EDTI dont have kids, but if I did...and I knew my kids were prone to meltdowns I cant stop or control, I would NEVER take them on a plane.
I remember my mom picking me up out of the grocery cart and hauling us out of the store because I threw a fit over something. She didnt force the whole store to endure my meltdown, that was her job...
some parents just dont have much common courtesy these days...
"I
don't have kids...." .... says everything you need to know before
forming an opinion about what works with a being that is 95% id.
Even kids that aren't prone to meltdowns, have meltdowns. It is not predictable either... they are for bizarre reasons a lot of times.
My boy has flown 5 times before he was 2 yrs. He's had 2 meltdowns in 20 takeoffs/landings which it took about 10 minutes to calm him down - but JFChrist - people need to stand down. Pretty decent success rate if you ask me for a kid that's cooped up in a seat for hours.
#1.5 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 AM EDTEven kids that aren't prone to meltdowns, have meltdowns. It is not predictable either... they are for bizarre reasons a lot of times.
My boy has flown 5 times before he was 2 yrs. He's had 2 meltdowns in 20 takeoffs/landings which it took about 10 minutes to calm him down - but JFChrist - people need to stand down. Pretty decent success rate if you ask me for a kid that's cooped up in a seat for hours.
Mark: Buy the kid a CARES restraint system if you're unhappy with a simple lap belt.
#1.6 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 AM EDT
To
Hell with sympathy for the parents. Just think of what all of the other
passengers would have gone through on this flight. I commend the
captain...good call. If you can't control your kids, don't get on public
transportation. Just look at the father's comment “I think they
overreacted. I know you get kicked off planes for dangerous situations
like not wearing a seat belt or running around or something dangerous.
But I didn’t see the situation as being dangerous at all,” Yanchuk said.
Obviously another parent who is completely oblivious to their childrens
behavior regardles how much it irratates other people around. You
know...the kind of parent that doesn't think their kid can do any wrong.
#1.7 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 AM EDT
Parents
have the option of using the same seats for their children in planes
that they use in the car. That a parent cannot control/distract his own
child long enough to get the seat belt fastened and the plane off the
ground does not say much for his parenting skills. I think the airline
made the right call.
#1.8 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 AM EDT
Kat
~~ I wondered the same thing about changing seats with another family
member......I think that would have been a good idea. I can totally
understand that if the seat belt is not securly fastened, then that
would certainly be a safety issue. When my son was small, I ALWAYS took
interesting toys, colors, etc to keep him occupied when having to sit
for periods of time.
The trek from Seattle to Miami is a loooooooooooong one if you are confined to a small space and having to listen to a screaming kid. There is not another room that the parent can take the unruley child to, so everyone is stuck in a very uncomfortable situation, and then to have safety issues (seat belt) on top of that is just too much.
#1.9 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:54 AM EDTThe trek from Seattle to Miami is a loooooooooooong one if you are confined to a small space and having to listen to a screaming kid. There is not another room that the parent can take the unruley child to, so everyone is stuck in a very uncomfortable situation, and then to have safety issues (seat belt) on top of that is just too much.
AG99 That system is not allowed by several airlines.
Irene - That is only true of infant seats. Not car seats.
#1.10 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:58 AM EDTIrene - That is only true of infant seats. Not car seats.
Okay
after reading all the crazies that obviously have never raised kids and
think a quick spank would have fixed this--you are crazy!!!! I was a
wildly out of control, bright child. I loved the world and wanted to
see and touch every thing around me. I also liked ( and still demand)
to get my own way.
My poor poor mother was patient, stern, consistent and demanded good behavior and respect. She did spank me very hard whenever I screwed up. I didn't care---a little pain , a few bruises and then I get to go back to doing whatever it was that got me in trouble in the first place. I really did give her grey hair---I pushed her over the edge. Luckily I was able to harness all my energy into a pretty lucrative career.
If I had wanted to act up on a plane there is nothing my mom, the employees, or even the army could have done to put an end to it except knock me out or stun gun me. Some kids don't care about pain or consequences. I remember telling my mom ( and meaning it) I would rather die than give into any adult. The only thing that would have calmed me down in this situation would have been a new video game or food ( Parents should try that) Spanking doesn't work on kids like me, keeping their minds engaged usually work. My best advice is just wait it out---kids grow up.
#1.11 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 AM EDTMy poor poor mother was patient, stern, consistent and demanded good behavior and respect. She did spank me very hard whenever I screwed up. I didn't care---a little pain , a few bruises and then I get to go back to doing whatever it was that got me in trouble in the first place. I really did give her grey hair---I pushed her over the edge. Luckily I was able to harness all my energy into a pretty lucrative career.
If I had wanted to act up on a plane there is nothing my mom, the employees, or even the army could have done to put an end to it except knock me out or stun gun me. Some kids don't care about pain or consequences. I remember telling my mom ( and meaning it) I would rather die than give into any adult. The only thing that would have calmed me down in this situation would have been a new video game or food ( Parents should try that) Spanking doesn't work on kids like me, keeping their minds engaged usually work. My best advice is just wait it out---kids grow up.
My
family and I were almost kicked off a plane for the exact same reason.
Our 3 year old didn't want to sit in his seat. He is stubborn and
there is no reasoning with him when he gets like that. Luckily, I (his
mom) was seated across the aisle and was able to switch seats with my
husband and I was able to get him calmed down in time. We really just
got lucky. Here is the deal with a lot of 3 years. At some point
during a flight, they are going to have a meltdown. If it happens to
take place during the boarding/take off time, you are at risk of getting
the boot. Once your in the air, not much you can do about. Generally
they are temporary and short lived. No doubt it is annoying to others
but the alternative, not to allow any toddler to fly, is unreasonable.
Everyone needs to learn to be patient and understand that these episodes
are fleeting and move on.
#1.12 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 AM EDT
It's
pretty simple, really, two solutions, either the parent learns to
properly discipline his child, a quick spanking, just a couple of swats
and a stern warning that if he doesnt stop acting out, it will be worse
next time.
Or, if the parents want to continue with an undisciplined unruly child, just give him back the Ipad, at least one airline has stopped making passengers shut down electronic devices, as they have been proven to not effect the airplane equipment at all, it's time for this airline to get over their stupid archaic rules as well.
#1.13 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:03 AM EDTOr, if the parents want to continue with an undisciplined unruly child, just give him back the Ipad, at least one airline has stopped making passengers shut down electronic devices, as they have been proven to not effect the airplane equipment at all, it's time for this airline to get over their stupid archaic rules as well.
I
thought kids of a certain age/weight had to be in a car seat that was
placed in the seat like in a car. Other than that, it sounds like the
parent did not have anything for the child to do or a snack for the
child to keep the kid busy during take off. I mean, don't the kid have a
blankie, toy or book?
#1.14 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:03 AM EDT
mark
423819 ~~ A lot of times kids scream or cry during a flight due to
inner ear issues because of cabin pressure. This may be a reason for
some children who fly. On the other hand, the child in this article may
have just been a brat. The father mentioned they shouldn't of been put
off the plane because there really wasn't any 'dangerous/safety issues',
then why in the world couldn't he keep his kid SAFE in the seat belt?
Hopefully this will help these parents take a closer look at their parenting skills, and maybe make some adjustments. Too bad this family had to cancell or postpone an entire planned vacation because of a screaming, un-cooperative child. If I were that parent, I would be VERY embarrassed. You can hardly blame the kid, if the parent is not doing their part, and is too lackadaisical in training their children.
#1.15 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:03 AM EDTHopefully this will help these parents take a closer look at their parenting skills, and maybe make some adjustments. Too bad this family had to cancell or postpone an entire planned vacation because of a screaming, un-cooperative child. If I were that parent, I would be VERY embarrassed. You can hardly blame the kid, if the parent is not doing their part, and is too lackadaisical in training their children.
It
sounds to me like the flight crew acted reasonably. The child simply
refused to sit in his seat properly and be buckled in for take off. The
flight crew was understandably concerned over the child's safety as
well as the safety of other passengers. In an emergency a child who is
not buckled in can go flying and injure himself as well as cause injury
to other passengers. It sounds like the flight crew tried to work with
the dad and gave him ample opportunity to get the child settled down.
With our litigious society, had the flight crew allowed the
flight to take off with the child not properly buckled in and the child
been injured, the parents would probably have sued the
airline.
The real issue is that the parents were unable to control their three year old. I understand that little kids this age can have meltdowns, but that does not appear to be what happened here. The kid started throwing a tantrum when dad took away the iPad to turn it off for takeoff. This is just a spoiled kid acting up, not a kid who is upset being in an unfamiliar environment having a meltdown. I have never flown with a 3 year old, but I have flown with a toddler who had just turned 4. We had no problem with her and she was well behaved and we had a very enjoyable flight. The key as having enough snacks, games, and toys to keep her happy and occupied for the flight. Of course I am sure that the fact that she was raised to understand that acting out in public was not acceptable went a long way as well. I think that the airline personnel acted appropriately in the situation and that the airline did what they could to get these people off on their vacation. The family decided they would rather not fly the airline so the airline gave them full refund. I would say that is pretty fair on the part of the airline, particularly since they were probably non-refundable tickets and the airline was willing to rebook them on the next flight.
#1.16 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 AM EDTThe real issue is that the parents were unable to control their three year old. I understand that little kids this age can have meltdowns, but that does not appear to be what happened here. The kid started throwing a tantrum when dad took away the iPad to turn it off for takeoff. This is just a spoiled kid acting up, not a kid who is upset being in an unfamiliar environment having a meltdown. I have never flown with a 3 year old, but I have flown with a toddler who had just turned 4. We had no problem with her and she was well behaved and we had a very enjoyable flight. The key as having enough snacks, games, and toys to keep her happy and occupied for the flight. Of course I am sure that the fact that she was raised to understand that acting out in public was not acceptable went a long way as well. I think that the airline personnel acted appropriately in the situation and that the airline did what they could to get these people off on their vacation. The family decided they would rather not fly the airline so the airline gave them full refund. I would say that is pretty fair on the part of the airline, particularly since they were probably non-refundable tickets and the airline was willing to rebook them on the next flight.
Kat
- I was wondering that also. If mom is better at calming down spoiled
child, why wasn't she called back? Realistically, no matter how good a
parent you are, a three year old will have their "moments" and sometimes
one parent is more effective with that child than another. This man
did seem rather unapologetic about the delay in everyone's flight and
the disruption caused to the other travelers. At that age, when my
children acted up, I as the parent responsible for said child would
apologize on their behalf. Now my children are old enough to own up to
their behavior, and believe me they do.
To Kallie - The fact that you are so proud of your obnoxious, and bratty behavior as a child leads me to believe that not a lot has changed between then and now. I feel so sorry for you and anyone that comes in contact with you.
#1.17 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 AM EDTTo Kallie - The fact that you are so proud of your obnoxious, and bratty behavior as a child leads me to believe that not a lot has changed between then and now. I feel so sorry for you and anyone that comes in contact with you.
Well
said Reasonable22! But let me add, that my 4 year-old son has autism
and has a lot of trouble flying. I'm not sure why, but because of it,
he screams (he always screams because it's a part of his disability). I
won't take him on a plane unless it's absolutely necessary. It's not
for the other passengers, because I could care less if they get get
annoyed with the screaming, it's because of the stress on my child.
#1.18 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 AM EDT
Reni: Judging only by what we have been told in the article:
The trouble started with the iPad. For all we know, had the father given the child a non-electronic distraction, none of this would have happened. This is the result of a lack of forethought and a lack of preparation. Even the father admits that he wasn't any good with children. So how did he expect to get the child to behave in an emergency? They can be thankful that this was just a tantrum. If the cabin lost pressure in flight, how could the father get the mask on his child?
Hopefully the next flight will be better for them all. Soon they'll be dealing with 2 toddlers as they have 1 year old as well.
#1.19 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 AM EDTThe trouble started with the iPad. For all we know, had the father given the child a non-electronic distraction, none of this would have happened. This is the result of a lack of forethought and a lack of preparation. Even the father admits that he wasn't any good with children. So how did he expect to get the child to behave in an emergency? They can be thankful that this was just a tantrum. If the cabin lost pressure in flight, how could the father get the mask on his child?
Hopefully the next flight will be better for them all. Soon they'll be dealing with 2 toddlers as they have 1 year old as well.
Reasonable22
- You are wrong if you cannot control your child then stay off
airplanes. No not every 3 yr. old has meltdowns on flights. My
granddaughter ages 3, 5 and 9 fly internationally all the time and they
NEVER melt down, they sleep, color, read books etc. Get a clue you are
in charge of your kids not anyone else, their behavior reflects on YOUR
parenting skills.
#1.20 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 AM EDT
Kallie...
your attitude "just wait it out" is the problem. I have no issue with
the way the airline handled it. My preference is that you cannot fly on a
commercial airline until you are 7 years old.
#1.21 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:13 AM EDT
@Kallie,
The only problem with your way of thinking is that real life doesn't work that way. You may demand and get your way - but that only goes so far in the work world - and socially, well, I wonder how many would want to be around someone like that? Sounds obnoxious.
As the parent of now grown children, I have to say that your advice to give a child a new video game or food does nothing but reward inappropriate behaviors. You wouldn't reward your puppy for chewing your new shoes - you don't reward children for tantrums (and yes, I had one who threw fits - so I have experience).
Lastly, that fact that you never want to give in to an adult...again, real life demands that people fit in with society, and presumably you've learned over the years that you have too. I'm thinking about little things like not walking out of the store without paying because someone says you have to, not driving fast and recklessly because we follow laws, and oh - maybe showing up on time to work because that's what the boss likes?
#1.22 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:14 AM EDTThe only problem with your way of thinking is that real life doesn't work that way. You may demand and get your way - but that only goes so far in the work world - and socially, well, I wonder how many would want to be around someone like that? Sounds obnoxious.
As the parent of now grown children, I have to say that your advice to give a child a new video game or food does nothing but reward inappropriate behaviors. You wouldn't reward your puppy for chewing your new shoes - you don't reward children for tantrums (and yes, I had one who threw fits - so I have experience).
Lastly, that fact that you never want to give in to an adult...again, real life demands that people fit in with society, and presumably you've learned over the years that you have too. I'm thinking about little things like not walking out of the store without paying because someone says you have to, not driving fast and recklessly because we follow laws, and oh - maybe showing up on time to work because that's what the boss likes?
Siestasis-
you know this because you are with them on every international flight
they have taken. Have to call BS on this one. I am in charge of my
children, but there are limits to what can be done on a plane full of
people getting ready to take off. You seem awfully angry for a
grandparent. No reason to be so nasty.
#1.23 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:17 AM EDT
A child is raised by parents..blame the parents for doing a bad job with this 3 year old child (spoiled child).
Look at that 6 year old child the youngest to enter a spelling bee..those parents raised the child correct.
#1.24 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:17 AM EDTLook at that 6 year old child the youngest to enter a spelling bee..those parents raised the child correct.
I
know exactly what to do. Go up to parents of young kids and sell them a
half a Valium for $50.00. Dose little junior...problem solved.
#1.25 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 AM EDT
.................Benadryl
One Hour Before The Flight for Junior.....No arguments; No fuss; No
muss; No pissed off passengers; ...........trust me, it works.
#1.26 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 AM EDT
I'm
the person who thought of miniature straitjackets--with gags. Duct
tape and super glue! Velcro--in a pinch. Yeah, I know. (And no, it
wasn't for my kids!)
Nevertheless, when my adult children were this age, they did not behave this way--ever! These meltdowns are not appropriate, especially over some sort of video device. Mom wasn't that far away; it's a plane, not a football stadium. If she has more authority and control over the children, then she should have been there to take care of the situation. Dad wasn't worried about the seatbelt being around the kid's neck before take off. (Maybe he was thinking what we are all thinking right now!)
I could understand if the child was ill, autistic, or with some sort of other disability; but just being poorly behaved isn't an acceptable excuse. Bad behavior is what it is, and it exists because parents haven't been making their kids toe the line. Good parenting is actually quite easy, and it doesn't require outbursts by the parents to get the kids to behave. It's work, but it's the good kind. (My grandson is autistic, and he has the occasional meltdown; but with a little reassurance, he generally recovers quite well. He knows to work on his behavior, even when he's stressed.)
The airline was correct to give them the boot. I wouldn't have wanted to listen to that kid for a long flight, either. Crying babies is one thing. A spoiled brat is another.#1.27 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 AM EDT
Nevertheless, when my adult children were this age, they did not behave this way--ever! These meltdowns are not appropriate, especially over some sort of video device. Mom wasn't that far away; it's a plane, not a football stadium. If she has more authority and control over the children, then she should have been there to take care of the situation. Dad wasn't worried about the seatbelt being around the kid's neck before take off. (Maybe he was thinking what we are all thinking right now!)
I could understand if the child was ill, autistic, or with some sort of other disability; but just being poorly behaved isn't an acceptable excuse. Bad behavior is what it is, and it exists because parents haven't been making their kids toe the line. Good parenting is actually quite easy, and it doesn't require outbursts by the parents to get the kids to behave. It's work, but it's the good kind. (My grandson is autistic, and he has the occasional meltdown; but with a little reassurance, he generally recovers quite well. He knows to work on his behavior, even when he's stressed.)
The airline was correct to give them the boot. I wouldn't have wanted to listen to that kid for a long flight, either. Crying babies is one thing. A spoiled brat is another.#1.27 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:20 AM EDT
Yanchuk is still trying to figure out what went wrong.What's wrong is that you're an idiot and your kid is a spoiled brat.
We
raised 4 children who are all responsible, hardworking adults. We
loved them, cuddled them, played with them, but also taught them how to
behave at home and when we took them out in public from
the time they were very small. Children who are allowed to 'rule the
roost' at home by their fake crying with no tears, tantrums and worse at
home have no idea how to behave in public. It's not their fault - if
no one sets rules they don't know what's expected. A child of 2 or 3
years old is able to understand what's expected if someone tells them
before the event. If the parents had taken the time to sit down with
the child day after day before they left for their vacation and
explained to him what was happening, that they were going on a big
airplane, he would be allowed to play with the iPhone before the plane
took off, but would have to turn it off while the plane was taking off
but could turn it on again after they were in the air and would have to
wear the seat belt when taking off the tantrum would not have occurred.
The parents also should have taken along small toys, books and snacks,
etc. to entertain him. In new situations for the child, people assume
children understand procedures but how can they know if not told? If
you are going to a wedding in a church, explain before you go what is
going to happen, that they will need to sit very quietly and watch the
bride, (or whatever) they know what to expect and how they are expected
to behave. Kids are kids and like adults can have a bad day, but most
of these situations don't have to happen. Parents need to put
themselves in their child's position and remember how stressful new
situations are when you don't know what's expected and what's happening.
It's really very simple - make kids behave at home - explain to them
what you expect of them especially when you take them out in public, and
most of the time they will not misbehave. Kind of sounds like maybe
Dad should spend a little more time with the son at home so he will pay
attention to what Dad is telling him. Kids want approval and will live
up to or down to whatever you let them know what you expect from them.
You have to begin when they are small - if you can't control a 3 yr old,
you and society are in for big problems when they become teenagers.
#1.29 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:22 AM EDTmike277Because a child that can spell is always well behaved.
A child is raised by parents..blame the parents for doing a bad job with this 3 year old child (spoiled child).
Look at that 6 year old child the youngest to enter a spelling bee..those parents raised the child correct.
Kallie,
I wasn't going to comment on this article until I read your comments.
It amazes me that you openly admit that you were and still are basically
a "brat" and seem pretty proud of it. I feel bad for your parents or
anyone that comes in contact with you. It sounds like you need to grow
up a little and realize that life doesn't always go the way you want.
I especially feel bad for your poor mother......
#1.31 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:31 AM EDTI especially feel bad for your poor mother......
Unruly 3-year-old child kicked off Alaska Airlines flightYeaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
Mark-
you are incorrect about child safety seats on airplanes, the FAA encourages children to fly in either a CARES restraint or in their car seat.
#1.33 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:49 AM EDTyou are incorrect about child safety seats on airplanes, the FAA encourages children to fly in either a CARES restraint or in their car seat.
I'm just really disgusted with airline tactics these days, they're too cold and callous.
It used to be that a stewardess would give the child a "wings" pin and try to help them settle down.
These days, they just say "good bye" and don't give two-cents that the family may have planned that trip and saved for years for that one occasion.
Just saying...
#1.34 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:53 AM EDTIt used to be that a stewardess would give the child a "wings" pin and try to help them settle down.
These days, they just say "good bye" and don't give two-cents that the family may have planned that trip and saved for years for that one occasion.
Just saying...
There sure seems to be a lot of assumptions being made by people here, as well as quite a few "My kids/grandkids are perfect".
They call it the "terrible twos" for a reason; a young 3 year old would qualify.
If you've never had problems with your children, then goodie for you... the rest of us have normal kids, and yes, we also practice good parenting.
It's an unfortunate incident for all involved... not necessarily a brat and/or bad parents.
#1.35 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:13 PM EDTThey call it the "terrible twos" for a reason; a young 3 year old would qualify.
If you've never had problems with your children, then goodie for you... the rest of us have normal kids, and yes, we also practice good parenting.
It's an unfortunate incident for all involved... not necessarily a brat and/or bad parents.
I
understand your feelings of outrage at my comment. When there are
people in our society that can't or won't adhere to normal standards of
behavior it is upsetting. Here is the thing, I outgrew it like 99% of
these children will. I have a wonderful marriage ( 18 years) and five
fabulous kids and a great career with many friends. If you knew me ,
especially in a professional setting you would have never guessed in a
million years I was this type of child. I am being honest however,
there were no amount of consequences that were strong enough to
influence my behavior as a child ----including bodily harm.
You might not want to accept it, but there are many young people in this world that don't become "human" until much later in life when their frontal lobes finally connect. I am not disagreeing that the child should have been gently removed from the plane, my point is that it isn't always the lack of discipline at home.
"Upset in Ohio" ----we probably aren't friends most of my friends are positive and love life, but I currently live in OHio too.
#1.36 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:15 PM EDTYou might not want to accept it, but there are many young people in this world that don't become "human" until much later in life when their frontal lobes finally connect. I am not disagreeing that the child should have been gently removed from the plane, my point is that it isn't always the lack of discipline at home.
"Upset in Ohio" ----we probably aren't friends most of my friends are positive and love life, but I currently live in OHio too.
Jessica,
I agree. I remember once the same thing, as a kid I threw a fit in the store and my mother took me out instead of just continuing to shop as some parents do now. I don't want to hear someone else's kid have a fit while the parent just stands there and wait it out. Take the kid out. Yes I know fits happen, I fully expect them with my kid and when they do, regardless on how inconvenient it is for me, I refuse to force other people to listen to my unruly kid when they misbehave.
This father shouldn't be as confused as he is, his kid was acting unruly, he couldn't control him, they where removed from the plane both for their safety and the comfort of the other passengers (who sure as heck don't want to hear that kid) and given a refund. Done and done. The airline did the right thing.
American Girl~ I can only imagine a stewardess trying to give a kid one of those wings pins now. They used to actually BE pins so I have no doubt some dumb parent would sue if their kid gets pricked. Also....in this day and age of electronics, kids with ipads don't want a plastic pins, they want their gadgets. Such a sad thing.
#1.37 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:23 PM EDTI agree. I remember once the same thing, as a kid I threw a fit in the store and my mother took me out instead of just continuing to shop as some parents do now. I don't want to hear someone else's kid have a fit while the parent just stands there and wait it out. Take the kid out. Yes I know fits happen, I fully expect them with my kid and when they do, regardless on how inconvenient it is for me, I refuse to force other people to listen to my unruly kid when they misbehave.
This father shouldn't be as confused as he is, his kid was acting unruly, he couldn't control him, they where removed from the plane both for their safety and the comfort of the other passengers (who sure as heck don't want to hear that kid) and given a refund. Done and done. The airline did the right thing.
American Girl~ I can only imagine a stewardess trying to give a kid one of those wings pins now. They used to actually BE pins so I have no doubt some dumb parent would sue if their kid gets pricked. Also....in this day and age of electronics, kids with ipads don't want a plastic pins, they want their gadgets. Such a sad thing.
So
if I read this correctly, the wife (who could calm the child more than
his father) was unwilling to get out of first class, or move this child
into first class so she could calm him there??
These people have nothing to complain about. They had options and didn't take them.
#1.38 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:25 PM EDTThese people have nothing to complain about. They had options and didn't take them.
"Love
me, love my kid" is exactly the same as "love me love, my dog". If you
can't control your kid or your dog, I am unlikely to feel much love.
#1.39 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:37 PM EDT
"The vacation is canceled for now and Yanchuk is still trying to figure out what went wrong."
This is where the problem lies.
Glad to hear the flight went just fine without them.
Bravo Alaska Airlines!
#1.40 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 PM EDTThis is where the problem lies.
Glad to hear the flight went just fine without them.
Bravo Alaska Airlines!
As
a father of 2, I have never tolerated behavior like that, in or out of
the home. It is not the problem of a group of strangers (the crew and
other passengers of the flight) when you cannot control your child; that
is a parenting problem. The plan was flawed to begin with, because the
father out-and-out admitted that he isn't as good at calming the child
down as the mother was. Then, when you're in such a position where your
child has the potential to ruin the flight of everyone else and
possibly even your vacation plans, would you put him with the parent
that is least well equipped to handle him if he has a tantrum?
I applaud the flight crew for first trying to make accomodations, and then, when that wasn't working, asking them to leave so as to not inconvenience the rest of the travelers.
#1.41 - Thu May 31, 2012 12:59 PM EDTI applaud the flight crew for first trying to make accomodations, and then, when that wasn't working, asking them to leave so as to not inconvenience the rest of the travelers.
RevLucifer,
right on. We have all been on flights with unruly children and I
applaud parents who know how to take immediate control to calm their
children down.
I question the wisdom of the parents who would even consider taking their very young children on a vacation that required a plane flight of over 4,000 miles. If they can't get out of the gate without a 9.0 tantrum, imagine what would or could occur at 35,000 feet.
#1.42 - Thu May 31, 2012 1:34 PM EDTI question the wisdom of the parents who would even consider taking their very young children on a vacation that required a plane flight of over 4,000 miles. If they can't get out of the gate without a 9.0 tantrum, imagine what would or could occur at 35,000 feet.
Reasonable
22 - Angry no, disappointed yes, disappointed that parents like you
blame everyone but themselves when their "little angel" misbehave. I
have had experience as a Librarian and as a pre school teacher with
parents that are too lazy to rear their children to behave properly.
Yes, I have been on those flights. We travel as a family we are very
close, we go to Scotland to play golf, Ireland for weddings, London for
fun, etc.
#1.43 - Thu May 31, 2012 1:43 PM EDT
@NoSno
Well my largest issue is that everyone is talking like this one person was so horribly slighted by the airlines because he was asked to leave and take another flight. After the airline crew waited for him to get the child under control. At what point are people going to realize that this man and his child are not the center of the universe. The airline crew tried to accomodate them by giving them ample time to get the child under control. When that didn't work, they had to think of the rest of the passengers on the flight who were being delayed by this child. So, when a hundered people inconvenience 1 person by asking him to take his child on another flight so they can depart, that's piss-poor customer service on the airline's part by treating the man like some sort of second class citizen according to some on this board, but those same people on here feel that allowing 1 person to inconvenience the hundred or so people on the flight by making them wait and wait until the child could be brought under control, that's fine.
That's how this needs to be viewed; is accomodating this one person more important than accomodating the rest of the people on the flight? And we reveal the issue with
America today; everyone feels that they must be accomodated, no matter how many other people are inconvenienced, or they are being treated unfairly. So, 1 person was treated unfiarly by the airline crew by being asked to leave, but a hundred people were being treated unfairly by that passenger by continuing to force them to wait while he took control of the child. Who is worse, the crew who is unfair to one person, or the one person who is unfair to many?
#1.44 - Thu May 31, 2012 2:18 PM EDTWell my largest issue is that everyone is talking like this one person was so horribly slighted by the airlines because he was asked to leave and take another flight. After the airline crew waited for him to get the child under control. At what point are people going to realize that this man and his child are not the center of the universe. The airline crew tried to accomodate them by giving them ample time to get the child under control. When that didn't work, they had to think of the rest of the passengers on the flight who were being delayed by this child. So, when a hundered people inconvenience 1 person by asking him to take his child on another flight so they can depart, that's piss-poor customer service on the airline's part by treating the man like some sort of second class citizen according to some on this board, but those same people on here feel that allowing 1 person to inconvenience the hundred or so people on the flight by making them wait and wait until the child could be brought under control, that's fine.
That's how this needs to be viewed; is accomodating this one person more important than accomodating the rest of the people on the flight? And we reveal the issue with
America today; everyone feels that they must be accomodated, no matter how many other people are inconvenienced, or they are being treated unfairly. So, 1 person was treated unfiarly by the airline crew by being asked to leave, but a hundred people were being treated unfairly by that passenger by continuing to force them to wait while he took control of the child. Who is worse, the crew who is unfair to one person, or the one person who is unfair to many?
I can't believe people can't tolerate a little noise. Were you people never children?
#1.45 - Thu May 31, 2012 2:29 PM EDT
Oh,
and one other thing. The debate over how to control the child is moot.
Every child is different, and some may respond to spankings, others a
stern talking to, and some with simple (non-electronic) distraction.
This doesn't need to devolve into a shouting match about how the father
should have behaved to get the child under control, because we don't
know the child. What I do know is that a 3-year-old is a delay waiting
to happen. Sometimes it's a 15 minute delay, and sometimes it's a 2
hour delay, but it is one of those inevitables of life; a 3-year-old
will not be perfectly behaved all of the time. Just because I said I
didn't tolerate it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
You learn this on road trips. If you know that you need 6 hours of driving time to get to your destination, you leave 2 to 3 hours early so that if the delay occurs (and it will), you aren't late for your destination. Same thing with flights; if you want to travel with a 3-year-old via plane, make sure that each your connections have about a two-to-three-hour layover, in case something like this happens, and you don't make the guy in the row behind you that has a 15-minute layover at the next stop miss his connection. Instead, you can step off, deal with the child, and accept the airline's generous offer to put you and your whole family on the next flight instead, no additional charge.
It's amazing how a little forethought and preparation can eliminate these little snags.
#1.46 - Thu May 31, 2012 2:32 PM EDTYou learn this on road trips. If you know that you need 6 hours of driving time to get to your destination, you leave 2 to 3 hours early so that if the delay occurs (and it will), you aren't late for your destination. Same thing with flights; if you want to travel with a 3-year-old via plane, make sure that each your connections have about a two-to-three-hour layover, in case something like this happens, and you don't make the guy in the row behind you that has a 15-minute layover at the next stop miss his connection. Instead, you can step off, deal with the child, and accept the airline's generous offer to put you and your whole family on the next flight instead, no additional charge.
It's amazing how a little forethought and preparation can eliminate these little snags.
wryview:
the point of the article and most comments is that the child was
uncontrolable and would not sit in his seat and wear the seat belt. The
father was ineffective and they were kicked off the plane, as they
should have been. Noise we can handle, not obeying the fight attendants
is not allowed.
#1.47 - Thu May 31, 2012 2:57 PM EDT
I
always sway if you get on a plane and there are two seats availabale -
one next to a woman with an infant in her lap or one next to a guy with
a turban and a machine gun in one hand and a hand grenade in the other -
always sit next to the guy with the turban. It's always worked for me.
#1.48 - Thu May 31, 2012 2:59 PM EDT
Common
sense, the family should have sat together even if it cost them more.
Unless the dad is a stay at home dad the kid should have been with mom.
Giving the kid any electronic device on the plane was mistake two.
Everyone knows they make you shut them off. Parents with small kids
should have to bring a car seat or booster car seat with them as kids
belong in them for safety and they know what being in one means.
#1.49 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:11 PM EDT
Leave
the kids home when going to the Virgin Islands. They are too young to
appreciate it anyway. When they are old enough to behave themselves
then take them down there.
#1.50 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:17 PM EDT
Hey
maybe he was secretly pinching his kid to make him cry so he could
trade seats with his wife, remember it was a long flight!! I flew once
with my wife and our six month old, from LA to London, over the pole
non-stop. She slept almost the whole way, it was horrible, as we were
landing and totally wiped out from jet lag, our daughter woke up and was
ready to parrrty.
#1.51 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:21 PM EDT
@Devil's Son
That's ridiculous. Dad's are just as capable taking care of children regardless if he's a stay at home dad or not. There is no sense in what you are saying at all...
Maybe I've been spoiled by how mature and well behaved my nephew was but I think by 3 your child should be able to understand that sometimes you have to sit still and be quite. You have to start from a very young age when teaching them that when an adult says stop you stop. To me this seems like a spoiled child because when I was young even if I was acting up with my parents, a stranger (ie flight attendant) telling me to sit still would have embarrassed me enough to listen.
Also, if you are going on a plane don't give your kid an iPad to play with if you know they'll get upset when you have to take it away. They don't understand the "No Words With Friends" rule. All they think is that you just took away their toy for no reason when they were being good. A tantrum will ensue. Give them a piece of paper some crayons and the task of drawing you a picture of where you are going or where you just came from. Entertain them the non technological way.
#1.52 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:26 PM EDTThat's ridiculous. Dad's are just as capable taking care of children regardless if he's a stay at home dad or not. There is no sense in what you are saying at all...
Maybe I've been spoiled by how mature and well behaved my nephew was but I think by 3 your child should be able to understand that sometimes you have to sit still and be quite. You have to start from a very young age when teaching them that when an adult says stop you stop. To me this seems like a spoiled child because when I was young even if I was acting up with my parents, a stranger (ie flight attendant) telling me to sit still would have embarrassed me enough to listen.
Also, if you are going on a plane don't give your kid an iPad to play with if you know they'll get upset when you have to take it away. They don't understand the "No Words With Friends" rule. All they think is that you just took away their toy for no reason when they were being good. A tantrum will ensue. Give them a piece of paper some crayons and the task of drawing you a picture of where you are going or where you just came from. Entertain them the non technological way.
#1.53 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:36 PM EDT
siestasis - I KNOW what the point of the article is. I was commenting on THAT point.
#1.54 - Thu May 31, 2012 3:36 PM EDT
If
I ever were to be kicked off a plane, you would not find my sorry ass
running to the media. What an embarrassing person. Prepare for your
trip, bring more than just an iPad for your kid. How about books and a
stuffed animal? Take the car seat, strap the kid in and start reading.
#1.55 - Thu May 31, 2012 4:19 PM EDT
@wry
No, you were commenting as if the reason the child was kicked off the plane had something to do with him making noise. That is factually incorrect. If you reread the article, you will find that the flight crew had him removed because he refused to properly wear the seatbelt that he is required to wear during takeoff, by federal law. Here, allow me to demonstrate.
Served.
#1.56 - Thu May 31, 2012 4:37 PM EDTNo, you were commenting as if the reason the child was kicked off the plane had something to do with him making noise. That is factually incorrect. If you reread the article, you will find that the flight crew had him removed because he refused to properly wear the seatbelt that he is required to wear during takeoff, by federal law. Here, allow me to demonstrate.
I can't believe people can't tolerate a little noise. Were you people never children?Versus
"Everybody wanted to make this work, just trying to work with the child and get him to sit upright," McElroy said.Now for the magic of logic. 1) You originally made a comment about the child being noisy (see the first quote above), and nothing about the safety issue relating to the seatbelt. 2) You later stated in your defense that because your original comment was based on the point of the article, you must therefore know the point of the article (siestasis - I KNOW what the point of the article is. I was commenting on THAT point.). 3) Your original comment had nothing to do with the point of the article (see the second quote above). Ergo, 4) You do not know the point of the article.
"He kept lying down in his seat, his legs were dangling over the arm rest. At one point, we did have the seat belt fastened but because the child was lying down, now the belt was across his neck and the flight attendants were worried that he would begin to choke himself."
Yanchuk disputes that account, saying he would never allow his son to get into such a precarious position. He said he tried to calm Daniel down, but couldn't do it as well as his wife, who was far away.
When the boy finally sat up, the plane pushed back from the gate. But then a flight attendant noticed that the child was lying down in his seat again, so the captain was notified and decided to return to the gate, McElroy said.
Served.
Children's Benadryl - USE IT!!
#1.57 - Thu May 31, 2012 4:39 PM EDT
This NEVER happened
in my (Irish) family. Our parents were in control and we 6 kids knew
it. (And BTW we were flying since infancy--never a problem).
I'm reminded of the quote from King Edward after he visited America for the first time in the early 1900's. He said it was a strange country where the parents obeyed their children.
#1.58 - Thu May 31, 2012 4:46 PM EDTI'm reminded of the quote from King Edward after he visited America for the first time in the early 1900's. He said it was a strange country where the parents obeyed their children.
Why
didnt they just take a vacation closer to home if the little boy
couldn't handle such a long flight? I mean, clearly these people have
money for an expensive vacation to the Virgin Islands, they have money
to fly first class and they have money for a toddler to play with an
Ipad. You don't have to go on such a fancy vacation to have a good time,
why not go camping? Then the child could run and cry and tantrum to his
heart's desire. Or spend their time off going to the museums int he
Seattle area. Money dosent buy common sense obviously.
#1.59 - Thu May 31, 2012 5:05 PM EDT
Kallie:
Not everyone "grows up." Some folks simply get older without ever growing up. You certainly appear to be one of those folks. There is a 5 letter word for people like you, I'll give you the last 4---itch.
#1.60 - Thu May 31, 2012 5:24 PM EDTNot everyone "grows up." Some folks simply get older without ever growing up. You certainly appear to be one of those folks. There is a 5 letter word for people like you, I'll give you the last 4---itch.
@
Laura; You really need to read the article before reading the comments
of the people who have. I'll answer for Kat...in the article, the
father admitted that the mother could control this kid much better than
he could. The mother was only a few seats away up in first class.
Hence, why wouldn't she switch seats with the dad? If she simply HAD to
ride in first class, then why didn't the problem child switch with the
other well-behaved child riding in first class with the mother? Either
simple switch would have solved the problem, and they wouldn't have been
kicked off. That's what Kat meant by that.
#1.61 - Thu May 31, 2012 5:41 PM EDT
I
love how so many people without kids think they know all about
parenthood. I'll bet their parents just shake their heads at them and
think to themselves that they raised a stupid clueless idiot.
#1.62 - Thu May 31, 2012 5:55 PM EDT
Ok,
let's see what "The Book" has to say on the subject: "Withhold not
correction from the child; for if thou beatest him with the rod, he
shall not die(Pro. 23:13)."
You people are so educated, that you don't even know how to control a child!
#1.63 - Thu May 31, 2012 6:15 PM EDTYou people are so educated, that you don't even know how to control a child!
my
children have had meltdowns in airplanes, grocery stores, department
stores, movie theaters, church, family members homes, you name it! It's
GOING TO HAPPEN!! The only reason I survived with my sanity intact is I
ALWAYS came prepared for said meltdown!! I would buy a new, cheap toy
from the .99 store and give it to them when things started brewing, or a
fancy looking sucker, or a new box of crayons, or markers and a
coloring book, SOMETHING! You know your kid and you know what works.
Sometimes just an old toy that had been buried deep in the toy box that
they hadn't seen in a long time. You get the point. I always had a bag
packed and was always putting out fires before they got too bad. It
almost always worked! You have to be prepared! The kid isn't going to
read the Sky Mall magazine!
I feel for the other passengers but I can tell you, this father suffered probably more than anyone! And for those of you WITHOUT kids, you should only be commenting on the "other passengers" part, not the parenting part!
#1.64 - Thu May 31, 2012 7:42 PM EDTI feel for the other passengers but I can tell you, this father suffered probably more than anyone! And for those of you WITHOUT kids, you should only be commenting on the "other passengers" part, not the parenting part!
On one hand, I know that toddlers have tantrums. It'll happen, and anyone who thinks they can be easily avoided is delusional.
On the other hand, if the child was truly not staying in his seat, that is a safety issue that should probably be addressed.
#1.65 - Thu May 31, 2012 7:46 PM EDTOn the other hand, if the child was truly not staying in his seat, that is a safety issue that should probably be addressed.
And for those of you WITHOUT kids, you should only be commenting on the "other passengers" part, not the parenting part!
Yup, because no one who has never had a child can have an opinion on parenting. Next time I hear the neighbors beating their five year old, I won't be calling the police. I'm not a parent so I can't possibly know enough to call the cops on child abuse. Right? I don't have kids so I can't possibly know, right?
In case it goes over your head, people who aren't parents have every right to comment on parenting concerns in public cases. And if you don't want to hear from the village, stop asking the village to subsidize your kids education, and stop asking the village for special priveledges for your kids. To use an airline example, if I have to pay to sit next to my friends on an airline, then so does a parent and a child, particularly if parents decide to whine that they have kids so they shouldn't have to pay. If I have to pay 10 bucks extra to make you sit by your screaming brat on a flight, you can damn well bet I am going to comment on what a crap job you are doing with my funds.
#1.66 - Thu May 31, 2012 8:25 PM EDTYup, because no one who has never had a child can have an opinion on parenting. Next time I hear the neighbors beating their five year old, I won't be calling the police. I'm not a parent so I can't possibly know enough to call the cops on child abuse. Right? I don't have kids so I can't possibly know, right?
In case it goes over your head, people who aren't parents have every right to comment on parenting concerns in public cases. And if you don't want to hear from the village, stop asking the village to subsidize your kids education, and stop asking the village for special priveledges for your kids. To use an airline example, if I have to pay to sit next to my friends on an airline, then so does a parent and a child, particularly if parents decide to whine that they have kids so they shouldn't have to pay. If I have to pay 10 bucks extra to make you sit by your screaming brat on a flight, you can damn well bet I am going to comment on what a crap job you are doing with my funds.
If
a parent cannot keep their kid under control then don't fly. Maybe
it's time for the airlines to create a section with closed doors for
parents with kids.
When people fly, they shouldn't have to deal or put up with unruly kids.
#1.67 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:00 PM EDTWhen people fly, they shouldn't have to deal or put up with unruly kids.
Felix~
You forgot one other thing. If you don't want to hear from the village, stop expecting the village to tolerate having to see or listen to your unruly, misbehaving, loud kid.
#1.68 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:35 PM EDTYou forgot one other thing. If you don't want to hear from the village, stop expecting the village to tolerate having to see or listen to your unruly, misbehaving, loud kid.
Perhaps
Daniel is too young or undisciplined to be flying in the first place.
If you can't control your kid, your options are limited.
#2 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:18 AM EDT
I
don't get why this father had such a problem keeping his kid sitting up
straight and buckled in. I think some other posters had it right - the
parents didn't discipline the boy to keep him compliant.
We flew from NJ to Colorado when my son was 3. He has ADHD w/ autism spectrum disorder. To keep him occupied on the plane, I packed a bag full of crayons, coloring books, new unopened toys, and other items that he liked in addition to snacks and milk. He had his own seat and was not a problem.
Maybe next time these parents will think ahead and bring some non-electronic toys for the kid to keep him interested and occupied.
#2.3 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:40 AM EDTWe flew from NJ to Colorado when my son was 3. He has ADHD w/ autism spectrum disorder. To keep him occupied on the plane, I packed a bag full of crayons, coloring books, new unopened toys, and other items that he liked in addition to snacks and milk. He had his own seat and was not a problem.
Maybe next time these parents will think ahead and bring some non-electronic toys for the kid to keep him interested and occupied.
CNJMom:
Also a good idea is to train the child before the flight takes place.
Unless the flight is on a whim or an emergency (like to a funeral) you
have several months in advance to help the child understand that a
flight is a special car or bus ride where different rules apply. For a
lot of very young children, this is their first time on an airplane.
Take them to the airport to look around, get them excited and happy
about flying. If you see that the child can't stay reasonably quiet and
buckled in at home or in your car, why expect that he would behave in an
airplane? if your child is terrified at being in the airport, why would
he be happy about being shoved into a cramped cabin with dozens of
people he doesn't know?
He's a baby, he doesn't know anything. That's why parents exist.
#2.4 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:44 AM EDTHe's a baby, he doesn't know anything. That's why parents exist.
journalx2,
Good ideas to get the toddler in the travel mode by doing a run-through on what's expected.
I would also be interested to know - did the airline provide a little welcome package for the child? On our flight, the attendent gave our son a little cardboard package with coloring stuff, a booklet about flying and wikisticks to play with. Actually - a very nice idea!
#2.5 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:49 AM EDTGood ideas to get the toddler in the travel mode by doing a run-through on what's expected.
I would also be interested to know - did the airline provide a little welcome package for the child? On our flight, the attendent gave our son a little cardboard package with coloring stuff, a booklet about flying and wikisticks to play with. Actually - a very nice idea!
Mark-423819It is called a car seat that you take with you that you will place in the airplane seat which makes the seating very appropriate for a 2-4 year old. Then when you arrive at your destination you will use that same car seat to safely transport your kid.
It also doesn't help that the airlines do not have restraint systems that are appropriate for kids that age, but you have to buy them a seat.
Good for the airlines. If your kid can't behave in public, don't take them out until you can get some parenting skills.
NJ Mom,
So you did not dicipline your child either, you just gave him a new treat everytime he was going to have an episode. Bribery. I have a son also and it works but please do not act like dicipline and bribery are the same.
If I had to guess the father should be a stronger figure and his son should know when he means business. We have taught our son that when we are upset sometimes it helps to breathe, so we take 3 deep breaths because he is three and try and listen to each others side. This works 80% of the time the other 20% we end up discussing it in the restroom.
#2.7 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:52 AM EDTSo you did not dicipline your child either, you just gave him a new treat everytime he was going to have an episode. Bribery. I have a son also and it works but please do not act like dicipline and bribery are the same.
If I had to guess the father should be a stronger figure and his son should know when he means business. We have taught our son that when we are upset sometimes it helps to breathe, so we take 3 deep breaths because he is three and try and listen to each others side. This works 80% of the time the other 20% we end up discussing it in the restroom.
Bill--
You cannot put a car seat in an airline seat. You can only put an infant seat in an airline seat. They are too big for those after age 2.
#2.8 - Thu May 31, 2012 10:54 AM EDTYou cannot put a car seat in an airline seat. You can only put an infant seat in an airline seat. They are too big for those after age 2.
Mark, you are wrong. I have done it. It is a tight squeeze but it can be done.
#2.9 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:01 AM EDT
We
have used our Britax convertible car seat on a plane many a time for my
kids, up to age 3 (I think it is much safer, anyway). And guess what?
When they are comfy in a seat they know, they nap! And I get to read!
Whoot! I highly recommend this for any parent, because chances are, you
need your car seat for your destination, anyway.
#2.10 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:04 AM EDT
robiscoole
~~ When you responded to NJ mom, you thought she was 'bribing' her
child. This is not really a 'bribe', nor is it a negotiation. Children's
brain's are not like an adult brain, ESPECIALLY children with special needs, as NJ mom's child has. Did you get that point when reading NJ mom's post? Maybe you should read it again.
For your toddler, your breathing technique sounds as if it works pretty good, and I'm glad that works for you. Not every technique works across the boar for every child. If crayons and toys work, then by all means, bring them along. Make life easy, keep yourself and other comfortable when it's in your power to do so.
#2.11 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:18 AM EDTFor your toddler, your breathing technique sounds as if it works pretty good, and I'm glad that works for you. Not every technique works across the boar for every child. If crayons and toys work, then by all means, bring them along. Make life easy, keep yourself and other comfortable when it's in your power to do so.
Mark
right on the money.The airlines were never this stupid before when it
came kids years ago! I hate a kid throwing a tantrum as well as the
next guy,but it's a Child a 3 year old child fo god sakes.The Morons
coming up with these Idiot Draconian Rules for kids,thinks it's a one
size fits all ruling when it comes to people amd kids.It doesn't work
that way!It has nothing to do with a spoiled kid and blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah!One more time it's a 2 to 4 year old and they don't go
by anyone's rules or schedules.Newsflash! THEY DON'T KNOW
ANYBETTER!Anyone saying other wise is a total moron!
You are a paying customer,of course with all the Idiocy falling into place with these Airlines they forgot all about that little factor.It's up to them to accommodate the customer within reason.
As you said, there isn't a 2-4yr.old on the planet who doesn't have a melt down.The airlines,knows this goes on and should,make better for provisions for when this happens.They had it in place years ago and there's no logical reasoning for not implementing these provisions now.
Oh and to anyone disagreeing with this,learn the difference between common sense and being stupid,because that's exactly what these airlines are by doing this.
Maybe if less people flew they'd get the message.One more time.It's called COMMON SENSE PEOPLE,nothing more and nothing less.Get the HINT!
#2.12 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:19 AM EDTYou are a paying customer,of course with all the Idiocy falling into place with these Airlines they forgot all about that little factor.It's up to them to accommodate the customer within reason.
As you said, there isn't a 2-4yr.old on the planet who doesn't have a melt down.The airlines,knows this goes on and should,make better for provisions for when this happens.They had it in place years ago and there's no logical reasoning for not implementing these provisions now.
Oh and to anyone disagreeing with this,learn the difference between common sense and being stupid,because that's exactly what these airlines are by doing this.
Maybe if less people flew they'd get the message.One more time.It's called COMMON SENSE PEOPLE,nothing more and nothing less.Get the HINT!
Mark-423819
Bill--Mark, as already stated you are wrong. Part of parenting skills is planning ahead - There are FAA approved car seats that fit in airline seats. Again, you do need to plan and have skills. Also airlines are required to make sure that you can use the seat if it is FAA approved.
You cannot put a car seat in an airline seat. You can only put an infant seat in an airline seat. They are too big for those after age 2.
http://www.babycenter.com/0_car-seat-safety-using-a-car-seat-on-a-plane_3656331.bc
@robiscoole
- i disagree. Coming prepared on an airplane with several distractions
is prepared parenting, not permissive parenting. Nowhere did C NJ Mom
say she bribed her kid away from a meltdown - however, knowing that you
will be confined to a small space for a lengthy period of time, she came
prepared to keep her child distracted and occupied to AVOID meltdowns.
What do your kids do on airplanes - sit silently staring ahead without
moving? I know I always traveled with a goody back of snacks, books,
coloring books, and other distractions. It allowed me to interact with
my child and keep their hands and minds busy during the tedious flight.
Had this parent been prepared with more than an iPad, which he should
have known would not be allowed during takeoff, the meltdown might have
been avoided. That's doesn't show a lack of discipline. That's the
sign of a parent who knows how to engage their child in a stressful
situation.
#2.14 - Thu May 31, 2012 11:26 AM EDT
Why give them their money back, just kick them off. What the hell did the airlines do to loose 3000.00? Mom and dad have spent their life making money to have someone else raise jr.
ReplyDeleteTime to pay up the rest of your life. They asked for this. Sorry.