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Sunday, June 12, 2011

Cut, Cap, and Balance: The GOP Debt Ceiling Strategy



A plan to attach the three debt-reduction musts to any bill raising the debt ceiling appears to be the chosen path of the GOP.
June 10, 2011 - 12:00 am - by Peter Roff



With nearly half of all Americans, according to the latest CNN poll, saying they fear America is on the verge of another “Great Depression,” Barack Obama and Congress continue their debt-ceiling tango.
It’ not just that the various groups involved — the Keynesians, the Cloward-Pivenists, the green eye-shade deficit hawks, and the supply-siders — want to lead, it’s that they all want to conduct the band.
The debt ceiling, the legal limit on borrowing by the federal government, is a critical issue. Currently it’s just over $14 trillion, and with all the borrowing the Obama administration has engaged in to fund initiatives like the stimulus program, total U.S. indebtedness is rapidly approaching that number. If the debt ceiling is not raised, the federal government would have to cease borrowing — meaning it could, for the first time ever, default on its obligations.
Some people — especially adherents to the strategy developed in the mid-1960s by sociologists Richard Cloward and Francis Fox Piven — would likely cheer the chaos that would result from a default, as their stated objective is to overload the social welfare system until it collapses under its own weight.
For the rest, however, the need to increase the debt ceiling has created a debate between those who want to key the country on the course Obama has set for it and those who want to use it to trigger major reforms in government spending.
Right now all the action is in the U.S. House of Representatives, where The Hill newspaper recently reported that a majority of the House Republican Conference sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) “laying out conditions to be met before a higher debt ceiling is agreed to.”
The letter “called for discretionary and mandatory spending cuts to halve the budget deficit next year, spending caps to hold Washington’s spending to 18 percent of gross domestic product, and passage of a balanced-budget amendment.”
The strategy, which is known by its nickname “Cut, Cap, and Balance,” is expected to dominate the discussion surrounding the debt ceiling as events move forward.
Conservatives have embraced the plan, which is expected to be put forward in the Senate by the likes of South Carolina’s Jim DeMint and freshman Utah Senator Mike Lee. They especially like the part about securing passage of a balanced budget amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but only if it includes a supermajority requirement to raise taxes and strict spending limitations pegged to U.S. GDP. Says Colin Hanna — president of Let Freedom Ring, a group that promotes constitutional values and economic freedom (disclosure: I am a senior fellow at Let Freedom Ring):
It’s our goal to form a coalition of as many conservative groups as we can find that would support a pledge to commit the signers not to vote for a debt-ceiling increase unless three conditions are met.
It’s a strategy that puts Obama supporters in a box. The president and his treasury secretary have been very clear that they want a “clean” debt ceiling bill, one that is not encumbered by any provisions that will limit the federal government’s ability to spend money now and in the future. That approach failed to pass, however, when it was offered as a stand alone bill in the House last week. Nearly half the Democrats joined all the Republicans in voting “No.”
The “Cut, Cap, and Balance” measure is almost certain to pass the House. If it fails in the Senate, then the blame for default can be placed at the feet of the Democrats. Hanna tells The Hill:
This provides a remarkable opportunity, because you’ve got a Democrat leader of the Senate who must deliver to a Democratic president a vote to support a debt-limit increase. It puts them in a pressure cooker we haven’t seen before.
This aggressive strategy is also likely to mollify members of the Tea Party movement, some of whom have been critical of Boehner and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell for what they see as a failure to challenge the White House in a more confrontational way.
With so many Americans focused now on the issue of government spending, the iron is hot in a way it has never before been. The chance to enact real reform before the next election, when the White House may change hands, exists. It may even be, some Republicans suggest quietly, that Obama will seize upon some version of “Cut, Cap, and Balance” as his version of Bill Clinton’s welfare reform — a way to embrace a signature GOP issue in such a way that it cuts the knees out from under his Republican opponent in the next election, caps his potential vote, and on balance, wins him re-election.




  1. I guess I like House Speaker John Boehner’s original plan better. He said that for every dollar you raise the debt limit, you have to take a dollar away in spending. It’s simple and to the point. If they actually did that, at least it would be a big start in cutting the budget. Then, when the Republicans take over the White House in 2012 and maybe even the Senate, they can get down to some real budget cutting. Maybe. But right now, they have to deal with a socialist in the White House who will probably veto anything the Republicans send to him. But, if the Republicans hold firm this time, they may just win.
    • Vagabond
      Libertyship I would like it much better if the ratio were two for one,
    • white tiger
      Some of us demand a balanced budget now. Right now. Today.
      We can pay the interest on the national debt, pay the debt down some, then use the remainder to fund the rest of federal expenditures, cutting where we must in order to balance. Thus, no default, immediate balance, and reduction of federal spending with contraction of the federal workfarce.(sp= deliberate).
      We must immediately remove the feds from ownership of private enterprise, eg, auto manufacture, healthcare, insurance.That is communism; not socialism. The monkey on a stick in the White House is a communist; not a “progressive”.He is empowered by the malicious and the ignorant.Such must be excluded from the polls if we are to restore the Republic and nullify his every act in the process.
      • Jack
        Good thinking, but not coming. The #1 priority for National Republicans is to pretend to care about deficits while not blaming themselves for starting it with their “tax cuts” –really tax deferments. Obama and the Democrats are just worse. People outside the cocoon know this. There is no way, no how, no wise National Republicans can be for a balanced budget. The “tax cuts without spending cuts” ideology would be eviserated. The really, really believe in that fiscal fraudulent theory. And they have nothing, absolutely nothing to back it up. At least the Democrats have some poor interpretations of Keynes to explain their wild spending.
        The idea that Republicans are fiscally “conservative” is a complete joke. They know it, and that’s why they embraced the “Ryan Plan” with religious fervor when they figured out the public figured out deficits soak credit and cause recession. The “Ryan Plan” written by insurance company lobbyists was used as a dodge on Republicans’ own behavior, the “it’s all Medicare’s fault” excuse. Nope, nothing will change until the pundits get in line with the peeps and say “Bush’s tax cuts without spending cuts was a stupid, harmful thing to believe in.” Then maybe the politicians will have some fear.
        • democrat = evil idiot
          “blaming themselves for starting it with their “tax cuts”
          So if spending causes debt and a tax cut increases intake to the treasury, how exactly aren’t you dumber than a sack of hammers? I mean really, do you have someone dress you every day? Does your mother still have to wipe your a$$?
          • Jack
            Your reactions to my postings are further evidence the Republicrats will not balance the budget. To do so not only admits prior failure, but challenges quasi-religious beliefs. You might as well go with the global warmers and their “science” and hockeysticks, maybe you can score some grant money out of that.
            BTW, your name is not “Kudlow,” no?
  2. 2. tommy gunn
    The conservatives will never have more leverage than they have now so they should put the screws to the budget and the administration today–? Any agreement as to $2 dollars of spending cuts for every dollar of debt ceiling is not worth the paper it is printed on. If it were why have all the previsous such agreements failed? They will increase the debt ceiling I predict and two years from today (after the elections of course), we the taxpayers will be in debt for an additonal $2 trillion of debt. I will make that bet to anyone right now!
    The proposal also makes no logical or mathematical sense. If they get $2 or even $1 of spending cuts, why do they need to raise the debt ceiling at all. We as citizens when faced with such a problem start cutting right now across the board-all discretionary and non-essential spending NOW! That is how it does in the REAL world but of course Washington DC is not REAL!
    This budget debate is still a “non-serious” exercise but it does show us once again why we should start to demand less from these fools in Washington. They are so anxious to run every aspect of our lives but in reality they are a ship of fools who are incompetent at almost every task we give them. The things they are supposed to do, like protecting our borders and enforciing our laws, well they just can’t do these things for whatever the reason BUT the things they have no constitutional mandate for–well lets takeover the health care industry, the auto industry, the student loan program, control the farms, and the energy industry (where prices are “necessarily skyrocketing” in the present. Well we should do these for the “children”. What a load of crap!
    Give us a break. Stop spending NOW is what I say and if a little pain and suffering is visited on these fools in Washington, they deserve it!!
    I predict that if we give in today, we will regret the outcome. It will be “another day older and deeper in debt”. That is a fact!
    • Don L
      “Cut everything across the board” is like throwing the people out of a struggling boat to lighten the load. Cut agencies – whole departments -bureacrats everywhere – and take the politica consequences -you’ll get the blame from the Marxist media anyway -none of the left’s bought and paid for groups will vote for you anyway, so go for it- EPA, education, FCC, TSA Czars by the zillions. Use the same crisis they use without worry to increase spending , to do the cutting.Everone understands that what you do when you’re broke – “stop spending – cut back.” It should be the GOP 2012 mantra like hope and change. Across the board cut just imply an simple inability to prioritize the obvious.
  3. 3. Allston
    I agree, even at this late date, there’s something of an air of unreality coming out of the process. No one wants to make truly hard – and necessary – choices. And the willful disregard for the hard facts emanating out of the White House…!
    Cut everything in the budget by 20%. Everything.
  4. 4. rrbs
    It’s a public relations problem. As long as the Progressives and Democrats can cry that the Republicans are destroying social security and medicare, the socialists win on the deficit/debt problem. Conservatives need to educate the public that the current social programs are unsustainable. Most importantly, the need to sell the public that their solution is better.
    • Jack
      “As long as the Progressives and Democrats can cry that the Republicans are destroying social security and medicare”
      Why shouldn’t they? It’s absolutely true. Further, the so-called “Ryan Plan”, another insurance company raid like Obamacare, is a complete dodge from the Republicans’ fiscal theories, and blatant attempt to dodge personal responsibility for deficit spending ideology. The Republican politicians embraced the “Ryan Plan” as the cure-all for the deficit with great speed because they know they are fiscal frauds, so they point the finger at something they cannot be blamed for, and something that pretends like they have a cohesive ideology, now that the Bush tax cuts without spending cuts scam cannot be mentioned anywhere without gaining derisive laughter.
      Really, where are all those “conservatives” these days claiming Bush’s tax cuts would be a net good thing? We haven’t even begun to pay off Reagan’s drunken spending binge. Lucky the USA has a big credit card…reaching the max out though. I don’t think a REpublican politician can really balance a budget because it will be a concession of ideological defeat. The Democrats are saying “Bush too” was using stimuluses, deficits, and so, and the are absolutely, 100% right.
      • Jack = numbnutz
        “Reagan’s drunken spending binge.”
        Jeez you really are a sack of hammers aincha. Apparently the only thing your mom didn’t fail at is servicing your sperm donor.
        Please paste for me a link to the government document that provides for the President to spend one thin dime. Of course you libwits know Congress spends the money and whose a good little libwit? You are, that’s who. And which party has controlled Congress for the VAST majority of the past century – Libwits, that who.
        I’ll give you a scooby snack is you can cite the last time one of your marxist masters actually cut spending (not spending growth) or didn’t show/accuse a Republican of murder and child molestation (all at the same time usually) for trying to cut spending?
  5. 5. Forgotten Man
    There are some easier choices that can be make to reduce the deficit.
    1. Stop all spending on aliens both legal and illegal, except emergency medical care. There is little rational argument for allowing unproductive aliens into the country for any reason.
    2. Require people getting any aid such as WIC, Food Stamps, housing or education to refrain from using drugs, alcohol, and tobacco. If they spend money on the above products they have a asset allocation problem not a lack of money.
    If you are irrational you can argue with the above, but if you are ration I think you will agree.
  6. 6. tanstaafl
    As a Senator during the term of GWB, our Barry voted to not raise the debt ceiling.
    He now dismisses that vote as a political gesture. (swell)
    Congress has been spending our money like drunken sailors, no offense to drunken sailors. We are so weakened as we devolve deeper and deeper into debt. For the Cloward/Pivens of the world, however, that destabilization is music to their ears. (ok, Cloward is dead. Piven is a screaming old socialist maniac.)
    No one really knows the consequences of not raising the debt ceiling, again, whether the situation could be managed and the full faith & credit of the United States could be kept in tact.
    I am deeply against this country going further into debt.
    At some point, the profligate spender has to simply draw the line in the sand.
    Biting the bullet is the only path to “change”.
    • Steve DeMarcus
      May I clear up a thing or two about “drunken sailors” if you have been out to sea for 6 months or more you have to learn to walk about on a platform that is tilting, swaying, rocking and moving in a strange manner. You are accustomed to this motion but when you come to port you will appear to be intoxicated until you get your land legs.
      Same thing with painters except they appear intoxicated but this is due to the chemicals they are exposed to all day long and may in fact be intoxicated but not from drinking it is from the vapors they are exposed to.
  7. 7. Walt C
    I don’t understand all this talk of defaulting in August. When I don’t have enough money to make the house payment, I cut out other things to come up with enough. I don’t charge it to my credit card and keep playing golf and eating out.
    The problem is that congress thinks they can just keep spending by making the claim that if they don’t we’ll default. They can cut enough other crap to pay the interest on the debt, and avoid default and increasing the debt. Hey congress and Obama quit eating out and pay the bills.
  8. 8. TomA
    We average citizens are the proverbial “frog in the pot of water” and the Congress is slowly raising the temperature in the hope that we will not jump out before we are cooked. Boehner will cut a backroom deal with Obama and Reid that allows them all to appear to be cutting the budget in 2025+ in exchange for a big increase in the debt ceiling now. The media will then spin this as a “conservative win” but then laugh at us behind our back for being so gullible. Everyone in Congress gets to posture that they are fiscally conservative, knowing full well that they won’t ever have to vote on a budget cut 15 years from now. If you doubt this, just look a what happened with the 2011 budget deal, $100 billion in cuts promised and less than $300 million delivered. The water feels a little like a sauna right now, very relaxing.
  9. 9. Tex Taylor
    I have this palpable feeling we are about 24 months from mob rule. The system collapse is imminent, while the great majority watch America Idol, convinced it can’t happen here.
    When I see an Executive of Government Motors, employed only by the generosity of the citizenry, then make a statement that an additional one dollar tax needs to be invoked up the citizens when many are having a hard time even filling the tank now at $4.00 a gallon, and the reaction of those paying is a collective yawn and more TV? Then I know we are toast.
    We have only ourselves to blame. We put them there and willingly let them destroy us.
    I don’t see a soft landing out of this one, and the middle class no longer has the guts or the insight to do what needs to be done until it will be too late. Unless you are rich and/or connected, your life is about to make an abrupt change – 2008 was a pinprick.
    I pray I am wrong.
    • Tex Expatriate
      It is hard for me to pray you are wrong. 2008 was more than a pinprick; it was the beginning of the fall. A complete meltdown would serve liberty-loving men and women well. Those who hate liberty are cowards and would not win a confrontation. I myself live on a family estate. Twelve family members are on the watch most of the time. We’re all armed, we have the abililty to feed ourselves, and the determination to stop anyone who ventures onto our land.
    • Richard S.
      Totally agree. When 44% of the people think Barack Obama is doing a good job with the economy, there’s not much hope left. We’re toast and the only thing we can do is go down fighting.
  10. 10. Samizdat
    This is a good first step. I appreciate how the balanced budget proposal would require supermajority for tax increases. I agree Vagabond above that the cut ratio needs to increase to 2-1.
    We will all be way better off in the future when the welfare and entitlement state is curtailed. That will either occur through a conscious plan or via a collapse of the economy. I think the later is more likely to occur, and sooner rather than latter. Our current crop of legislators just doesn’t have the ability to really see and fend off what is about to occur. On that basis, they will be caught off guard when an offshore event causes the economy to unravel.
  11. 11. white tiger
    Yes. Predictably the Boehnerites will roll over and compromise with the Demonrats on some complicated socialist scheme, 2,000 pages long, which will be so ambivalent and contradictory that it could mean anything to anybody.The end result will be an agreement to spend us into bankruptcy and a new economic system controlled by globalists. The damned commies couldn’t do it with guns; now they are doing it with money.
    Folks, we’ve got to get them out of there. For keeps. Vote ‘em out, lock ‘em up and straighten out the mess they’ve made.
  12. 12. Dean
    So far, Barry has shown no ability at triangulation or adopting a more constructive approach to anything, except rhetorically. I could see him letting ‘cut, cap and balance’ pass and then simply ignoring the cuts and caps while working against the constitutional amendment provision. He has, after all, shown a remarkable abiliity to simply ignore law when he wants to. On the other hand, while it is true that not extending the debt limit should mean that Timmy has to prioritizes outlays to pay our debt obligations first, I can see Barry giving the OK to actually go into default, then saying ‘See, I warned you the Republicans would make me do this!’
  13. 13. Marc Malone
    I think they should pass a balanced budget amendment in the House. It’ll die in the Senate, but it’ll still show me they are serious, not to mention making a huge news splash. Then, we could have the dialogue about the link between high taxes or borrowing (borrowing is a tax) and lack of jobs. Link the debt to jobs, and we can rein this in with folks. It has to be a pocketbook issue.
    • myth buster
      I don’t know if they have the votes for that. They need 288 Yea votes to propose a Constitutional Amendment, but there are only about 240 Republicans.
    • We don’t dare propose any constitutional changes right now. Even the Republicans will turn it into a grab-bag of political agendas and compromise. It will spell the death of the Constitution.
      • Samizdat
        I think it much safer if amendment occurs via the 2/3rd state option outlined in Article 5. It is a tough road, but it may be possible to get the necessary 34 states if specific amendments are suggested. To restore 10th Amendment respect we need a Nulification amendment where a set # of states, say 26, could vote to nulify federal statutes. A balanced budget amendment must be very carefully drafted to make tax increases very difficult, I am skeptical it is the right way to go.
  14. 14. Steve
    It makes sense to push hard and force tough votes in the Senate. Obama pulling a Clinton would be interesting. Somehow I doubt he has the common sense.
  15. 15. T. T. Thomas
    When will ‘reality’ become a part of anybodys thinking and reasoning?
    The government, as it has become, not since 2009 but rather, since July 4, 1776, [requires] huge spending. Why? Beacause, contrary to populist rhetoric, all that spending ‘benefits’ Americans at-large. Yes, I know how many will jump up and claim bygod, I’m not benefiting…I’m just paying and paying. Well, thats simply juvenile thinking and reasoning!
    Independence ideology has slowly and systemically evolved into a collective ideology. NOT by any means at the hands of any government, but rather the people of the collective. Contrary to populist rhetoric there is no such thing as [equality] even within any given species. But, America has evolved by the wishes of the people to have and maintain social equality, meaning that those with the means must provide for those whom, by whatever reasons, are without the means to be equal in social status. The question then becomes, by what means will the goods and services be provided to those with lesser means, to acquire and have equal status. You have only two choices! People-to-people providing distribution or the government providing distribution to the people.
    America did very well for a very long time, with the people-to-people concept but, that began to change as the nation transformed from a unitized society to and individualist governmental society. People, on a national scale, no longer wanted to be locally responsible for the welfare of their neighbors and began to systematically shift such responsibility to the government. Thus, the governments spending wheel began and hasn’t slowed. The size and powers of the federal government to facillitate this has grown and grown as the nation becomes more and more populated….as has the [required' spending. Nearly 2/3 of government spending is based on social needs programs seeking and maintaining individual equality.
    Contrary to populist belief and rehtoric, social security, medicare and medicaid are not the only costly programs straining the governments incoming revenues for social equality. In reality, there are more than 1,700 federal government programs, all connected one to another, to benefit the overwhelming majority of the nations people...directly and indirectly.
    Any proposed 'debt ceiling' will require reduced goods and services to the people and have even more negative consequences immediately and over time. The 'people' have put the nations population and the government on a circular road of unsustainability with grave consequences arising from [any] approach of reversal.
    For example! The nation no longer has the sustainable economies necessary to support its accustomed economic and welfare status which means less employment opportunity and ultimately, less means of providing for its collective welfare, [individually] or governmentally. Without rambling on, I’m hopeful folks can come to realize how vast, deep and complex the prolems facing the nation are and with [any] proposed means of reversal will come grave consequences to vast classes of our population now and on into the future generations.
    Typically, in the private sector, as a means of survival and to maintain the welfare of your business or personal lives, you go out and borrow money when things get tough and your independent financial resources are becoming drained. If you can’t borrow the money….you sacrice or sink! By the same token, if you borrow more money than you can reasonable repay, you again sacrifice or sink.
    The same applies to our government…borrow, sacrifice or sink! Borowing is now becoming a problem in more than one way…sources to borrow from and the unsustainable debt from borrowing. That pretty much narrows the remaining options, does it not? Sacrifice or sink!
    Who and what are you ‘really’ willing to sacrifice, now by choice or, later by NO choice? Low priced goods and service price supported by the government, national, state and community infrastructues supported by the federal government, health care for the less fortunate supported by the government, education costs supported by the government, unemployment benefits support by the government, small business loans supported by the government, home lending and mortgages supported by the government, low interest industrial loans supported by the government, all kinds of useful research supported by the government, consumer goods safety supported by the government and on down a very long list of benefits…..remembering everything is connected one to another all the way down to your jobs and pay checks every month. Thats pretty much the reality if and when folks wake up to it.
    • Bohemond
      Mr Thomas, my response will be much briefer than your essay.
      The Federal budget in FY 2007 was 2.7 trillion dollars. It is now (FY 2011 (est)) $3.8 trillion.
      That is an increase of 1.1 trillion dollars in annual spending, or 41%.
      I would submit that none of the wonderful “benefits” you cite were not already in existence four years ago; therefore I trust you would have no objection to a 40% cut, back to FY 2007 levels.
      For I’m afraid I’m not moved by your chorus of “Every Cent is Sacred.”
      • T. T. Thomas
        Bohemond….your assumption is without merit! The more than 1,700 subsidy entitlements have been around for a long time. Maybe not in the exact number of today, but certainly not increased in any significant way by this current administration.
        I personally, couldn’t care less what they cut or how much. I’m among the fortunate who can easily endure any cuts they make.
        The real point is rather simple! Contrary to populist rhetoric, government spending benefits the general population and much of it supports JOBS and paychecks. So the real question remains. Who and how many are you willing to sacrifice and what do you do with the sacrificed? Is the nation poised to start paying the real costs of goods and services without the accustomed government subsidies? If so, what do we do the those millions of the old system without the capacity to ‘start paying up’ as a result.
        People who have more superficial answers than substantive questions are scary folks!
    • Frenologist
      Textbook socialist claptrap. Try and stop standing on your head. It might help you see the world straight, although there seems to be little hope your common sense will recover even after that.
      • T. T. Thomas
        Frenologist…you classically represent the problem in America today. Short on substantive dialog and resolve and looooooong on cutsie smartass rhetoric. You must be one of those new age college educated who prides him/herslf with the discreditied title of frenologist.
        • Frenologist
          Clearly, standing on your head has produced a skull deformation that has affected your mental processes. Your misconceptions are wide, but as suggested, at least partial remedy is at hand: Right yourself and stop being a mental wuss. In your unnatural position, you are only hurting yourself.
    • rrbs
      To first order it seems simple to me. The Government gets it’s wealth from the private sector, by both taking it directly in the form of taxes and fees, or by borrowing against it. No how matter how much Progressives whine about not getting income for all their socialist projects, once the money runs out, the system no longer functions and the system comes down. That’s it. Period.
      • T. T. Thomas
        rrbs…your conclusions are shortsighted! Regardles by whom or how we’ve come to where we are, what is the nation to do with those millions to be sacrificed and haven’t the capacity to reassimilate….should any of the proposed measures be taken? With ever act comes consequences! There are no good consequences on the horizons with the proposed changes for millions of American citizens. Again, what do we do with those millions of the old system? Dig ditches and bury them alive…or shoot them first?
        • rrbs
          My conclusion stands as it is. I merely stated the inevitable conclusion if we don’t take care of this problem. Example: Medicare premiums only cover less then one third of the actual cost of Medicare. Try paying only one third of you mortgage payment every month and see what happens.
  16. 16. Aaron
    “…since July 4, 1776, [requires] huge spending…”
    Just curious, are you quoting someone? Usually square brackets are used when you’re quoting someone and you make a minor modification to their exact wording.
    • T. T. Thomas
      Aaron…sorry old chap! If my style confuses you, please exercise your option to bypass my postings. In eighty-three years, I believe I’ve acquired as many sheepskins as any individual on here….probably two or three more! How I choose to construct and symbolize my writings shall remain my privilege of choice. I’ve come to be a rather unconvention old chap so accept it or…. not. :)
      • Aaron
        That’s cool if you want to march to your own beat. But if you feel like experimenting, html tags are a good way to create emphasis.
        Entering this:
        since July 4, 1776, requires huge spending
        will produce put the word “requires” in boldface:
        since July 4, 1776, requires huge spending
        Or feel free to ignore. :)
  17. 17. RightGunner
    “If the debt ceiling is not raised, the federal government would have to cease borrowing — meaning it could, for the first time ever, default on its obligations” is improperly concluded. A proper restatement is “If the debt ceiling is not raised, the federal government would have to cease borrowing —which could mean they would have to reduce spending on entitlement programs, and a host of other programs provided by Congress to buy votes, in order not to, for the first time ever, default on the Governments obligations.
    Holding the debt ceiling to its current value is the only way to reduce spending and eventually balance the budget. An amendment will never balance the budget, the proof of that is available in our recent past history, just observe.
    If we stop borrowing now, then people like me, who benefited from the past borrowing, will find it very painful and we will have to start paying for correcting the problems that got us here. If we allow the borrowing to go on then we are passing the problem to be paid for by our children. That is called child abuse. Are you for or against child abuse.
    • T. T. Thomas
      RightGunner….sounds like a terrific idea to me but……
      What do we do with the millions of folks who don’t have the capacity to “start paying” as you do? Dig trenches across the nation and bury them?
    • T. T. Thomas
      RightGunner…By golly, I think you have a solution. BUT….what do we do with the millions who haven’t the capacity to ‘start paying” as you state you have? Dig ditches across the nation and bury them alive or something like that? Nothing is ever as simplistic as many try to make it out to be.
  18. 18. Parker
    First of all this default nonsense has to be addressed. Tiny Tim tip toeing through the bank vault can use incoming tax receipts and other income streams to pay interest on the debt and any T-bonds that come due in the near future. The money is there. So there is no the sky is falling default crisis. Its all hysteria and hyperbole. If the republicans are serious about addressing long term debts and current deficits they have to begin buy letting the people know this default crisis is dangerous political theatre.
    • T. T. Thomas
      Your rationale would conclude that the U.S. Government ownes and banks all the USD in circulation….it doesn’t! At least not constitutionally! The constitution only grants to the government via the congress, to establish and collect taxes from the peoples monies as its source of revenue. Anything else comes only because the people are asleep at the wheel or have surrendered to unconstitutional powers of the government.
    • CGW
      Paker:
      Are you calling Tim Geitner an alarmist, a stooge or just another of the Bring In The Clowns group? How could you be so harsh on one of the men in America who is almost as smart as Barack Hussein Obama and Bill Clinton? You certainly don’t think Geitner’s a liar or a dissembler do you? Surely our President would throw him under the bus if he was, you know ethics and all that stuff considered.
  19. 19. Parker
    CGW,
    The answer to the first question is: yes, yes, and yes. The answer to the second question is: its easy, see the answer to the first question. The answer to the third question is: both.
    BTW, its going to get very crowded under that bus come October 1, 2012 when BHO has to submit his FY 2013 budget proposal right before the November election.
    T.T. Thomas,
    They can and will take anything they want. If they could take privately held physical gold and gold certificates in 1933 (Executive Order 6102) they can certainly take not only gold and silver today but also your bank account of federal reserve notes. You must not realize the constitution was thrown under CGW’s bus many decades ago. Constitution, they don’t need no stinking constitution (see Blazing Saddles circa 1974).
  20. 20. JL
    The richest country in the world wants to borrow money from poor countries, so its citizens can indulge in a decadent lifestyle beyond anything the world has ever seen.
    Its kind of interesting to watch the fall of the mighty US.
    Sorta like watching a Rolls Royce driven by spoiled teenagers going 140 mph towards the edge of the Black Canyon.

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