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Friday, August 3, 2012


Economist Richard Duncan: Civilization May Not Survive 'Death Spiral'


By Terry Weiss, Money Morning

Richard Duncan, formerly of the World Bank and chief economist at Blackhorse Asset Mgmt., says America's $16 trillion federal debt has escalated into a "death spiral, "as he told CNBC.

And it could result in a depression so severe that he doesn't "think our civilization could survive it."

And Duncan is not alone in warning that the U.S. economy may go into a "death spiral."

Since the recession, noted economists including Laurence Kotlikoff, a former member of President Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers, have come to similar conclusions.

Kotlikoff estimates the true fiscal gap is $211 trillion when unfunded entitlements like Social Security and Medicare are included.

However, while the debt crisis numbers are well known to most Americans, the economy hasn't suffered a major correction for almost 4 years.

So the questions remain: Is the threat of collapse for real? And if so, when?

A team of scientists, economists, and geopolitical analysts believes they have proof that the threat is indeed real - and the danger imminent.

One member of this team, Chris Martenson, a pathologist and former VP of a Fortune 300 company, explains their findings:

"We found an identical pattern in our debt, total credit market, and money supply that guaranteesthey're going to fail. This pattern is nearly the same as in any pyramid scheme, one that escalates exponentially fast before it collapses. Governments around the globe are chiefly responsible.
          


"And what's really disturbing about these findings is that the pattern isn't limited to our economy. We found the same catastrophic pattern in our energy, food, and water systems as well."

According to Martenson: "These systems could all implode at the same time. Food, water, energy, money. Everything."

Another member of this team, Keith Fitz-Gerald, the president of The Fitz-Gerald Group, went on to explain their discoveries.

"What this pattern represents is a dangerous countdown clock that's quickly approaching zero. And when it does, the resulting chaos is going to crush Americans," Fitz-Gerald says.

Dr. Kent Moors, an adviser to 16 world governments on energy issues as well as a member of two U.S. State Department task forces on energy also voiced concerns over what he and his colleagues uncovered.

"Most frightening of all is how this exact same pattern keeps appearing in virtually every system criticalto our society and way of life," Dr. Moors stated.

The work of this team garnered such attention, they were brought in front of the United Nations, UK Parliament, and numerous Fortune 500 companies to share much of their findings.

"It's a pattern that's hard to see unless you understand the way a catastrophe like this gains traction," Dr. Moors says. "At first, it's almost impossible to perceive. Everything looks fine, just like in every pyramid scheme. Yet the insidious growth of the virus keeps doubling in size, over and over again - in shorter and shorter periods of time - until it hits unsustainable levels. And it collapses the system."

Martenson points to the U.S. total credit market debt as an example of this unnerving pattern.

"For 30 years - from the 1940s through the 1970s - our total credit market debt was moderate and entirely reasonable," he says. "But then in seven years, from 1970 to 1977, it quickly doubled. And then it doubled again in seven more years. Then five years to double a third time. And then it doubled two more times after that.

"Where we were sitting at a total credit market debt that was 158% larger than our GDP in the early 1940s... By 2011 that figure was 357%."

Dr. Moors warns this type of unsustainable road to collapse can be seen today in our energy, food and water production. All are tightly connected and contributing to the economic disaster that lies directly ahead.

Editor's note: Germany's military held a secret investigation into this unsustainable pattern and concluded it could lead to "political instability and extremism." Details here

According to polls, the average American is sensing danger. A recent survey found that 61% of Americans believe a catastrophe is looming - yet only 15% feel prepared for such a deeply troubling event.

Fitz-Gerald says people should take steps to protect themselves from what is happening. "The amount of risky financial derivatives floating around the globe is as much as 20 times size of the entire GDP of the world," he says. "It's unsustainable and impossible to unwind in any kind of orderly way."

Moreover, he adds: "People can also forget that the FDIC can only cover a fraction of US bank deposits. It's a false sense of security. Just like state pensions, which could be suspended at any time. A collapse could wipe out these programs. Entitlements like Social Security and Medicare are already bankrupt and simply being propped up."

We can see the strain on society already.

In two years, Congress won't have any money for transportation, reports the Washington Post. Cities like Trenton, NJ have layed off one-third of their police force due to budget cuts. And other cities like Colorado Springs, CO removed one-third of streetlights, trashcans, and bus routes, reports CNN.

Fitz-Gerald also warns of a period of devastating inflation. A recent survey, reports USA Today, notes that in the coming years it could take $150,000 a year in household income for a family to afford basic living expenses - and maybe go out to a movie.

Right now, in fact, "52% of Americans feel they barely have enough to afford the basics."

"If our research is right," says Fitz-Gerald, "Americans will have to make some tough choices on how they'll go about surviving when basic necessities become nearly unaffordable and the economy becomes dangerously unstable."

"People need to begin to make preparations with their investments, retirement savings, and personal finances before it's too late," says Fitz-Gerald.

What The Experts Say: The team has released their investigation to the public and for a limited time you can view a private airing of it online. Learn the steps you can take to prepare your wealth, investments and way of life for this looming catastrophe. 



Around The Web



Warning: Much of what you are about to view has been presented to the United Nations, 16 world governments, and to Fortune 500 companies... but never to the general public
A team of economists, scientists and geopolitical experts has uncovered a startling pattern that has mysteriously appeared and threatens your financial security and way of life



  


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GOP prepares to file lawsuit against Holder



House Republicans will file a civil suit against Attorney General Eric Holder during the August recess, House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., has told NBC News.
House Republicans will file suit in an effort to compel Holder to release documents associated with the failed "Fast and Furious" gun-walking operation.
"We'll be filing a civil case during the break," Issa told NBC, "We will expect a day in court before a federal judge, which we have a 100 percent chance that the judge will hold that these documents should be delivered."

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa has told NBC News that House Republicans will file a civil suit against Attorney General Eric Holder. NBC's Pete Williams reports.
During negotiations between House Republicans and Holder in June, the White House invoked executive privilege on the documents Issa had requested for his investigation. Issa says that a federal judge should find that executive privilege does not apply to the documents he is requesting.

The House voted on June 28th, 255-67, to hold Holder in contempt of Congress for not turning over documents related to the Fast and Furious operation. During that vote, the vast majority of Democrats walked off the floor of the House in protest of a measure they saw as a political witch hunt."The idea that you would withhold based on some executive privilege the documents related to a cover up of a crime is absurd, but that's the claim that the attorney general is hiding behind," Issa said.
Soon after the House found Holder in contempt of Congress, the Justice Department penned a letter to House Republicans saying it would not be pursuing the case, stating that "the attorney general's response to the subpoena issued by the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform does not constitute a crime." The DOJ cited the White House invoking executive privilege as a primary reason for not proceeding.

Larry Downing / REUTERS
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder during a meeting at the White House in Washington, July 26, 2012.
The DOJ's response has left Republicans with few options, according to Issa, who compared the current situation with congressional attempts to retrieve the Nixon tapes during their investigation into the Watergate scandal in the 1970s.
"We're seeking a remedy and the remedy is an order to compel," Issa said. "Nixon didn't respond to Congress, he responded to federal judges, ultimately the Supreme Court, ordering that he had no such privilege to cover up the tapes. And these are no different than the Nixon tapes, we're asking for documents related to a cover up of lying to Congress."

Happy Birthday, Mr. President (though you might not have much fun)



Pete Souza/The White House
In 2009, the official birthday party for President Obama was celebrated in the Roosevelt Room of the White House. It was a low-key event with family and staff.
President Barack Obama is celebrating his 51st birthday (Aug. 4) in his hometown of Chicago this year, with a big bash that amounts to a campaign event.
Invites to the party are through a sweepstakes, and the campaign asks for a donation with every entry. According to the invitation, it will be an event that will be “so cool you're almost jealous of yourself.”
We would've hoped that this year, he would make revelers proud. But if history is any indication, it doesn't look like Obama is going to be kicking up his presidential heels particularly high.
When George W. Bush was president, he kept his birthdays on the small side too, celebrating his 62nd aboard Air Force One in 2008 en route to Japan. First lady Laura Bush was with him, along with a few White House staff members. The party was in the airplane's conference room and included just a coconut cake and a gift of birthday cards held in a small wooden box with Bush’s initials on it. According to presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, a president’s birthday is a chance to be with family and staff, especially in an election year. "Anything President Obama does that seems too self-congratulatory can get spun," he said. "If there’s ever a year he’s not gonna showboat, it would be this one.” 

Scott Olson / Pool / EPA
Cake, presents and a gorilla suit? See how some of the nation's presidents celebrated their birthdays throughout the years.
It was a markedly more subdued affair than the party that took place during Harry Truman’s time in the White House. On his birthday in 1947, his supporters gifted him with a bowling alley, built right into the Situation Room. Nor does it compare to John F. Kennedy, who held a bash in Madison Square Garden that included an infamous performance by Marilyn Monroe.  
Brinkley said that JFK's birthday party, which featured Monroe singing “Happy Birthday, Mr. President” while wearing a dress so tight she had been sewn into it, rates as the historical exception, not the rule. “It’s the one that lives in infamy,” he told TODAY.com.
It’s good to know that a bar has been set, even if it was in 1962. Looks like President Obama has some catching up to do. 
Last year, Obama celebrated his birthday with donors and had a barbecue at the White House. Along with friends and family, there were also four kinds of pie -- apple, peach, huckleberry and cherry -- in honor of the pie-obsessed president. Not exactly a birthday to remember.
Doug Wead, a presidential historian who was special assistant to president George H. W. Bush, said that a commander-in-chief's birthday is a different sort of experience than the regular guy's, mostly because presidents receive gifts year-round. "Every day is a birthday," Wead told TODAY.com. "They're getting gifts constantly." 

Getty Images / Getty Images
Former President George H.W. Bush performs a tandem parachute jump with Army Golden Knight Sgt. Bryan Schnell on June 13, 2004 over the Bush Presidential Library in College Station, Texas. Bush made two jumps to celebrate his 80th birthday.
 According to Wead, almost everyone he escorted into the Oval Office during his time there, whether the guest was on serious business or not, would bring a gift. “It would be a special kind of fishing pole they knew of, or an obscure baseball card that’s worth a fortune," he said. "One brought in a gigantic oil painting that we had to set up in the Oval Office for the president to look at, and would go in the Presidential Library after he left.” They are always bringing something, he said, like handwritten poems by Longfellow or something similarly precious. 

But once their time in office is up, presidents can finally let loose: Bill Clinton, for example, was serenaded by Lady Gaga last year for his 65th birthday.  Mead said that it is in the post-White House years that presidents “begin to find a life again.”
Perhaps we should take a page from Bush's book and suggest skydiving for Obama’s 51st birthday. After all, according to the invitation, airfare is included....George H. W. Bush certainly did. After leaving office, he began jumping out of planes for his birthday. The latest jump was in 2009 for his 85th birthday, and he has said he’ll go again on his 90th. After a jump he said, “Get out and do something. Get out and enjoy life.”

More from TODAY:
AP

Franklin Roosevelt

A birthday cake five feet high, weighing 300 pounds is presented to President Franklin Roosevelt by William Green center, American Federation of Labor president on Jan. 28, 1941. The president turns 59 on Jan. 30. Here he has just sampled a small piece of the cake.
AP

Harry S. Truman

President Harry S. Truman cuts a cake on his 61st birthday anniversary in the White House, Washington, D.C., May 8, 1945. The day marked his first full day as a resident in the Executive Mansion.
John Rous / AP

Dwight Eisenhower

President Dwight Eisenhower casts an admiring glance at a big square birthday cake, presented to him on Oct. 13, 1959 on the White House lawn, Washington before his takeoff for Abilene, Kansas, where he will celebrate his 69th birthday. Three minature oak trees with real acorns symbolizing three real trees which also were presented to him as a gift of the Republican National, Senatorial and Congressional Committees adorn the cake.
AP

John F. Kennedy

President John Kennedy smiles in response to well wishers at his 44th birthday party on May 29, 1961 in Boston's Commonwealth Armory.
AP

Richard Nixon

President Richard Nixon's dog King Timahoe takes a sample of the birthday cake presented to the president by the White House staff in a small party, Jan. 9, 1974 at the Western White House in San Clemente. First lady Pat Nixon and daughter Tricia shared in the festivities.
AP

Ronald Reagan

President Ronald Reagan, with First Lady Nancy Reagan and U.S. Sen. Charles Percy, left, wave from the reviewing stand during a birthday celebration parade through the streets of Dixon, Ill. on Monday, Feb. 6, 1984.
Barry Thumma / AP

George H. W. Bush

Budget Director Richard Darman, dressed in a gorilla suit, greets President George H. W. Bush with balloons on Monday, June 12, 1989 in Washington as he leaves the White House for a flight to Yellowstone National Park. The President is celebrating his 65th birthday.
J. Scott Applewhite / AP

George W. Bush

President George W. Bush, left, begins his 56th birthday playing a round of golf with his father, former-president George H. W. Bush, right, at the Cape Arundel Golf Club at the Bush family home in Kennebunkport, Maine, Saturday, July 6, 2002. President Bush is sporting a cap that says "El Jefe," meaning "the boss" in Spanish.
Scott Olson / Pool via EPA

Barack Obama

President Barack Obama greets supporters during a fundraiser at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago, Ill. on Aug. 4, 2011. The fundraiser, billed as a birthday celebration for the President who turns 50 years old on Aug. 4, featured entertainment by Herbie Hancock, Jennifer Hudson and others.


First Thoughts: Better (but still not great) jobs news for Obama


Better (but still not great) job news for Obama: 163,000 jobs added in July, while unemployment rate ticks up to 8.3%... An ode to Congress on its August recess: We salute you -- for not getting much done… Put up or shut up: More Harry Reid vs. Mitt Romney… And Romney camp/RNC try to distract the Obama campaign.

Evan Vucci / AP
President Barack Obama speaks during a campaign stop at Loudoun County High School on Thursday, Aug. 2, 2012 in Leesburg, Va.
*** Better (but still not great) job news for Obama: Well, the July jobs numbers are in, and they are better news for President Obama than they’ve been since the early spring. Here’s the AP’s write-up: “U.S. employers added 163,000 jobs in July, a hopeful sign after three months of sluggish hiring. The Labor Department says the unemployment rate rose to 8.3% from 8.2 % in June. July's hiring was the best since February. Still, the economy has added an average of 151,000 jobs a month this year, roughly the same as last year's pace.” As we said before, anything above 150,000 new jobs per month is good news for Obama. But expect Mitt Romney and the Republicans to focus on the slight tick up in the unemployment rate. The president will likely comment on the job numbers at his 11:45 am ET event at the White House, which is scheduled to press Congress to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for the middle class. Meanwhile, we’ll certainly get reaction from Romney, who campaigns in Las Vegas around the very same time.
*** An ode to Congress on its recess: For those who have departed on their August recess, we salute you -- for going down as one of the most unproductive, contentious, and unpopular Congresses in modern history. So in addition to last summer’s debt-ceiling debacle, the Super Committee’s failure, and the near-government shutdown during 2011, Congress has failed to come together to pass a comprehensive farm bill. And Senate Republicans yesterday filibustered a cybersecurity bill. So here’s your current Congress: Republicans are working to block or dismantle laws; Democrats are focusing on protecting what’s already law; and no one is getting stuff done. As we wrote earlier this week, one of the most profound changes on Capitol Hill is the job requirement. It’s no longer about bringing home deliverables to your state or congressional district (like roads, bridges, or new schools). Instead, it’s about scoring ideological points and waging partisan crusades.

                            Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Rep. Steve LaTourette, R-Ohio, joins Morning Joe formally announced he won't seek a 10th term in office, citing extreme polarization as his reason for retiring. LaTourette joins Morning Joe to further discuss his reason for leaving Congress.
*** Put up or shut up: It’s now pretty clear that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is accomplishing what he set out to do: get under Mitt Romney’s skin. After Reid doubled down on his baseless charge that Romney might not have paid taxes over a 10-year period, the Republican presidential candidate responded on Sean Hannity’s radio program, “It’s time for Harry to put up or shut up.” More Romney: "It's untrue, dishonest and inaccurate. It's wrong. So I'm looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we'll probably find out that it's the White House." But Romney’s put-up-or-shut-up reply gave Reid precisely the opening he was looking for. “When it comes to answering the legitimate questions the American people have about whether he avoided paying his fair share in taxes or why he opened a Swiss bank account, Romney has shut up,” Reid said in a statement last night. “But as a presidential candidate, it’s his obligation to put up, and release several years’ worth of tax returns just like nominees of both parties have done for decades. It’s clear Romney is hiding something, and the American people deserve to know what it is.”
*** Fatal Distraction: And while Reid is trying to get under Romney’s skin, it’s clear that the GOP is trying to do the same thing to Obama Campaign Manager Jim Messina. Earlier this week, the Romney camp and the RNCseized on reports that Messina -- when he was working at the White House -- sent work-related emails from a private account and held meetings at a coffee shop near the White House to avoid showing up in the White House’s visitor logs. This GOP hit on Messina, as well as yesterday’s hit on Obama Deputy Campaign Manager Stephanie Cutter, has a simple goal: to distract the people running the Obama campaign. But the Romney/RNC attack on transparency falls short when they aren’t promising more transparency under a potential Romney administration. In fact, by not releasing the identity of its bundlers or the candidate’s tax returns, the Romney campaign so far has been less transparent than the most recent past presidential candidates.

Countdown to GOP convention: 24 days

Countdown to Dem convention: 31 days

Countdown to 1st presidential debate: 61 days

Countdown to VP debate: 69 days

Countdown to 2nd presidential debate: 74 days

Countdown to 3rd presidential debate: 80 days

Countdown to Election Day: 95 days

Vacant Detroit becomes dumping ground for the dead

At least a dozen bodies found in 12 months' time



Carlos Osorio  /  AP/Carlos Osorio
Abandoned lots, alleys and neglected parks in Detroit used to be a favorite destination for discarded tires and trash. But over the past few months they have become dumping grounds for the dead.
By 
updated 8/3/2012 9:18:38 AM ET
From the street, the two decomposing bodies were nearly invisible, concealed in an overgrown lot alongside worn-out car tires and a moldy sofa. The teenagers had been shot, stripped to their underwear and left on a deserted block.
They were just the latest victims of foul play whose remains went undiscovered for days after being hidden deep inside Detroit's vast urban wilderness — a crumbling wasteland rarely visited by outsiders and infrequently patrolled by police.
Abandoned and neglected parts of the city are quickly becoming dumping grounds for the dead — at least a dozen bodies in 12 months' time. And authorities acknowledge there's little they can do.
"You can shoot a person, dump a body and it may just go unsolved" because of the time it may take for the corpse to be found, officer John Garner said.
The bodies have been purposely hidden or discarded in alleys, fields, vacant houses, abandoned garages and even a canal. Seven of the victims are believed to have been slain outside Detroit and then dumped within the city.
It's a pattern made possible by more than four decades of urban decay and suburban flight. White residents started moving to burgeoning suburbs in the 1950s, then stepped up their exodus after a deadly 1967 race riot. Detroit's black middle class followed over the next two decades, leaving block after block of empty homes.
Over time, tens of thousands of houses deteriorated. Some collapsed, others were demolished. Empty lots gave way to block-long fields.
Their corpses were found by someone walking along the desolate block. The closest house, about 100 yards away, belongs to 74-year-old Ella Dunn.Jacob Kudla and Jourdan Bobbish were found July 27 in a field off Lyford Street, a lonely road that borders an industrial area and a small municipal airport. The teens from suburban Westland, 18 and 17, respectively, had been visiting Kudla's uncle in Detroit when they disappeared July 22.
Over the last 24 years, she has watched nearly all her neighbors move out. Now she constantly hears people dumping tires, furniture and trash.
"They drive down and push stuff out," she said.
"Detroit is a dumping ground for a lot of stuff," said Margaret Dewar, professor of urban and regional planning at the University of Michigan. "There is no one to watch. There is no capacity to enforce laws about dumping. There is a perception you can dump and no one will report it."A nearby parking lot resembles a small landfill for junk — a coloring book based on Bible characters, a yellow toilet, furniture, shoes and five boats.
In mid-July, the decapitated bodies of a couple were pulled from the Detroit River and a nearby canal. Authorities say they were shot and dismembered in their home in suburban Allen Park, then driven to a little-used Detroit park and dumped in the water. A man who lived with them is charged in the slayings.
The bodies of two Hamtramck women were discovered in March buried in a neglected Detroit park. Five men are accused in the murders.
Back in December, the bodies of two women were found in a car parked near a vacant house. Six days later, the badly burned remains of two other women turned up in a car trunk. Police believe all were killed elsewhere and dumped in Detroit. A man from suburban Sterling Heights has been charged.
Detroit has more than 30,000 vacant houses, and the deficit-strangled city has no resources of its own to level them. Mayor Dave Bing is promoting a plan to tear down as many as possible using federal money. The state is also contributing to the effort.
But it's hard to keep up. About a quarter-million people moved out of Detroit between 2000 and 2010, leaving just over 700,000 residents in a city built for 2 million.
Census figures from two years ago show 793 people living on Lyford and the other 20 or so streets near the Coleman A. Young airport. Two decades earlier, about 2,900 people lived there.
"I couldn't move if I wanted to," she said. "They don't want to give you any money for your house."Dunn's modest home is one of only three on the block that are still occupied.
On Tuesday, a patrol car slowly rolled by. Officers are more visible after the teens' bodies were found, Dunn added.
A larger police presence is needed across the city, but Detroit can't afford to hire more. The city recently cut police pay by 10 percent.
When he joined the department 13 years ago, Garner patrolled a 3.6-square-mile area in the tough 3rd Precinct, bumping into another officer every 20 minutes. Now he covers 22 square miles and crosses paths with other officers "maybe once every two hours."
"If we know this, the criminals know this," Garner said.
Sparse patrols and slow response times make it less likely that someone will be seen dumping a body.
"Years back, people would go to rural areas" to dump bodies, said Daniel Kennedy, a Michigan-based forensic criminologist. "Now we have rural areas in urban areas."
Detroit's reputation as a violent city with one of the highest crime rates in the country also works against it.
The body of a woman from wealthy Grosse Pointe Park was found in January in her Mercedes-Benz SUV in a Detroit alley. The marketing executive was apparently killed in the garage of her upscale suburban home, but left in the city. A family handyman has been charged.
If a body shows up in Grosse Pointe, Kennedy said, "those officers are sitting around waiting for something to happen, and they are all over it.
"


Child labor: Small hands legally picking our food



(Editor's note: Names have been changed and locations have been withheld to protect the minors in this story.)
SAN FRANCISCO — Thousands of children, many too young to drive, are hard at work putting in long hours in brutal conditions to make sure the rest of us eat well — and cheaply.
During weeks of investigation into the close-knit and tight-lipped community of migrant workers, NBC Bay Area found dozens of children working the fields in the San Joaquin and Sacramento valleys — some who started work at 11 , 10  and even 8 years of age. Advocates say the number nationwide may be as high as half a million.
While 8-year-old children can't work in an office or a fast-food restaurant, a 1938 law allows them to legally work in agriculture.
Critics of U.S. labor law say it's a relentless cycle: Young workers drop out of school to follow their families and the crops for work. They work a full day in the fields picking, trimming and cultivating fresh fruits and vegetables. They often work nine to 10 hours a day in 100 degree-plus heat."Children can work at any age on a small farm with their parents' permission. It's absolutely legal for a small farmer to hire a 6-year-old to pick blueberries," said Zama Coursen-Neff of Human Rights Watch, who produced a 2010 report that found child labor prevalent in fields across the U.S.
Then they remain stuck in the fields because they never finish high school.
A typical day in one Central Valley migrant labor camp starts at 4:30 a.m.
Among those workers is a 15-year-old boy, "Ralph," who joins dozens of other young people heading to work. Some of them were told by direct supervisors to lie about their ages to get past the bosses in order to work.

During Ralph's work day, it reaches 106 degrees.
"We get kind of tired, and our arms hurt," said Ralph, who said he's in his second year working full time in the fields. "It is too hard to be in the fields."
U.S. labor law, which dates to 1938, allows children 12 years old — and depending on the circumstances, even younger — to legally work in agriculture.
There are many other children like Ralph.
"Like seven years, since I was 8 years old until now," one 15-year-old said, describing when he started in the fields.
Another of the young workers said, "I was in sixth grade. I was 11."
Yet another young girl described working so hard when she was 11 that her fingers bled.
"I had to carry a box, and I had cuts on my fingers," she said. "I came out really tired. It was really hot, and I didn't really like it, but it was worth it to go help my mom."
Certain crops are harder to pick for the children than others.
"Well, right now it's tomatoes," a teenager said. "It's the hardest thing I've done. I have to (work hard), bending over, standing up, carrying the buckets and throwing them."
Because of the hard work and long hours, some parents are trying to keep their kids away from the fields, even though their families need the money.
The mother of one young girl forces her to stay in school away from the fields. 
"She says because it's a lot of work," said the girl, whom NBC News is calling Carmen. "She doesn't want me to go through what she goes through (in the fields). She says it's really painful, hard work. Every night I massage her back so that she can feel better in the morning."
Carmen vowed to go to college and get a higher-paying job so she can support her mother and get her out of the fields.
Carmen isn't alone in her dreams. All of the children interviewed for this report said they hoped the money they earned would help them break out of the cycle and live a better life."I told her that when I get older I'm going to buy her a house and stop her from working," Carmen said.
"Right now, I want to be an artist, like drawing," one teenager said.
Coursen-Neff of Human Rights Watch stressed that as unfortunate as it may seem, those long hours in the fields are perfectly legal.
"You have to realize that many children who are working in hazardous conditions in the United States are working absolutely legally because U.S. child labor law — which is pretty good — has a big gaping hole in it when it comes to agriculture," Coursen-Neff said.
"Children are working in American fields at far younger ages for far longer hours and in far more hazardous conditions than all other working children in America," Coursen-Neff said. 
"A child can work again for hire at age 12 on any size farm. And at age 14, they can work for hire even without their parents' permission," she said. 
In other words, "a child of any age can work unlimited hours outside of school in agriculture even though, in all other forms of work, the number of hours that they can work is limited to make sure that they can get an education and to make sure that they're not put at risk."
Coursen-Neff said her research shows that low wages for migrant workers throughout the industry means those families need more workers in the field to make ends meet. It becomes an economic necessity that continues for generations.
Another group that hopes to change the practice is the Association of Farmworker Opportunity Programs, based in Washington.
"These kids know that there is a necessity in their family to be able to make ends meet, to be able to put food on the table, and are out there in those fields trying to make that happen," said Norma Flores Lopez, director of the AFOP's Children in the Fields Campaign.
The Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 created two separate classes of rules, Flores Lopez said:" There is a set of rules that covers children working in every other industry, and then there is a separate set of rules for kids working in agriculture."
It's hard to pin down how many children are out there, because there isn't a lot of data, Flores Lopez said, "but from our best estimates that we have been able to get, we know that there is anywhere from 400,000 children to up to as many as 500,000 kids."
Those kids, picking everything from grapes to almonds, all said they are laboring so long and so hard out of pure economics. The reality is that their parents simply can't make enough money working the fields without their children's help.
With just my husband's salary, it's not enough," she said in Spanish, speaking through an interpreter. "The two of them need to work in order to have anything and to keep up," One 15-year-old worker's mother put it plainly.
The U.S. Labor Department tried to change the law this year to further restrict and even prohibit some children from working in fields, but it met opposition from growers.
"What they were proposing was a little too strong, a little too restrictive," said Pete Aiello, a second-generation grower in Gilroy, Calif. 
"The current regulations as they are, I think, are good. I think they are sound. I think it's OK for kids that young to be working. (It depends) now on how many hours that they work."
Aiello and his family have owned and run Uesugi Farms Inc. for decades, growing chilies, pumpkins, Napa cabbage and other vegetables.
Uesugi employs 180 people on its direct payroll and 500 to 600 seasonal contract workers, mostly during the harvest season.
After other critics lodged similar complaints in Washington, the Labor Department withdrew the proposed rules in April. Critics also said the rules as drawn up by the Labor Department would have hurt family farms, although department officials dispute that.
Aiello acknowledged that some fellow growers look the other way and employ children who are 12 and younger.
"I know it does happen," Aiello said. "And that's unfortunate." 
On July 24, the House passed a bill to prevent the Labor Department from trying to change the labor law regarding children in agriculture in the near future. Backers said the proposed Labor rules would hurt have family farms and 4-H clubs.
Only one representative, Lynn Woolsey, a Democrat from Sonoma and Marin counties in California, spoke out against the legislation. Similar legislation has been proposed and awaits action in the Senate.
What most sides can agree on is that this issue is largely unknown.
"I think Americans are largely clueless about the labor in general that supplies their food," Aeillo said. "And whether it's their age or their ethnicity or their legal status or any of the above, I think Americans are in the dark about what's going on."
NBC Bay Area sought comment from a dozen other large grower organizations, like the California Farm Bureau Federation and California Citrus Producers, as well as large food processors and producers. All declined to comment or didn't return messages.
NBC Bay Area also asked U.S. Labor Secretary Hilda Solis for an interview. Her staff declined.